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Wgt & Bal.

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jfowler120(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:24 am Post subject: Wgt & Bal.

We have exactly the same configuration and  have found that with a couple of 200# types that there is a distinctive  pitch-up in the flare if the fuel is down to 10 gallons or so.  We've never  been able to hold the nose off.  We have also increased our touchdown speed  to the 55 kias area with half flaps and lots of nose up trim to make for a  softer nose wheel touchdown.  Why?  A hard landing a few months ago  resulted in considerable firewall damage.  The repair process revealed that  the damage started long before the hard landing -- the phenolic block at the  strut bottom was severely elongated fore and aft.  This appears to have  been caused by too much smacking down on the nose wheel.  That is now part  of the 50 hour inspection checklist.

  

 Karl

 [quote]   ---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Wgt & Bal.

Do you have any photos of the damage that was caused by the hard landing?



Also, which way is the main gear mounted?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

jfowler120(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: Wgt & Bal.

Gig,

  

 I'm checking with the repair place for  pictures.  Will get back with you if they took any.

  

 What do you mean about the main gear?  We  bought this kit partially built and somehow I think you're about to surprise me  with something.

  

 Karl

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Wgt & Bal.

 	  jfowler120(at)verizon.net wrote: 	
		  Gig,

  

 I'm checking with the repair place for  pictures.  Will get back with you if they took any.

  

 What do you mean about the main gear?ï¿½ We  bought this kit partially built and somehow I think you're about to surprise me  with something.

  

 Karl

  

  	




Yes I am. If you follow this link 



http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf



you will see a photo showing the gear on the ground with the marked for install flat side forward. If you look at all the other photos of the completed airplane, that happens to be the factory demo plane, you will see that the gear used to be installed with the flat side to the rear. This had the effect of reducing the distance between the main gear and the nose wheel and is supposed to make it easier to keep the nose off the ground when landing.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

jfowler120(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: Wgt & Bal.

Gig,

  

 Thanks.  Will check it tomorrow.

  

 Karl

 [quote]   ---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Wgt & Bal.

 	  jfowler120(at)verizon.net wrote: 	
		  Gig,

  

 Thanks.  Will check it tomorrow.

  

 Karl

 --- 	




Don't forget to let me know the outcome.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

jfowler120(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: Wgt & Bal.

I talked with Zenith.  They said that in our  case with a Jabiru engine to leave the "slanted side" forward as it is now on  our airplane.  "Straight side" forward is for use with heavier engines  (e.g. Continental) to assist in lifting the nose for takeoff.  The  difference in fore and aft tire footprint is about 1 1/2 inches.   

  

 Karl

 [quote]   ---

vmi67(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: Wgt & Bal.

Happy to hear that.  Re-hanging the gear wouldn't rate real high on my fun-o-meter.

  

 Jim  



 

   From: KARL POLIFKA <jfowler120(at)verizon.net>

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Cc: Melton <meltonoso(at)cox.net>; Ferrell (laptop) <vmi67(at)yahoo.com>; Baker <tbaker4254(at)aol.com>

Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:32:31 PM

Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Wgt & Bal.



   I talked with Zenith.  They said that in our case with a Jabiru engine to leave the "slanted side" forward as it is now on our airplane.  "Straight side" forward is for use with heavier engines (e.g. Continental) to assist in lifting the nose for takeoff.  The difference in fore and aft tire footprint is about 1 1/2 inches.  

  

 Karl

 [quote] ---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Wgt & Bal.

 	  jfowler120(at)verizon.net wrote: 	
		  I talked with Zenith.  They said that in our  case with a Jabiru engine to leave the "slanted side" forward as it is now on  our airplane.  "Straight side" forward is for use with heavier engines  (e.g. Continental) to assist in lifting the nose for takeoff.  The  difference in fore and aft tire footprint is about 1 1/2 inches.   

  

 Karl

	




Well I'm not going to disagree with Zenith but if it helps get the nose off the ground it stands to reason that it will help keep the nose off the ground. The problem you described is a nose heavy condition. And there is nothing in the build manual that says do it one way for Jabs and Rotax and the other way for Vairs and Conts.

You might try some vortex generators on the Horz. Stabilizer. Give a little more umph to the tail.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

meltonoso(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: Wgt & Bal.

That makes sense, doesn’t it?  

         

  

From: KARL POLIFKA [mailto:jfowler120(at)verizon.net] 

 Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:33 PM

 To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

 Cc: Melton; Ferrell (laptop); Baker

 Subject: Re: Re: Wgt & Bal.  

  

     

I talked with Zenith.  They said that in our case with a Jabiru engine to leave the "slanted side" forward as it is now on our airplane.  "Straight side" forward is for use with heavier engines (e.g. Continental) to assist in lifting the nose for takeoff.  The difference in fore and aft tire footprint is about 1 1/2 inches.    

    

   

    

Karl  

  [quote]    

---

dalemed

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Wgt & Bal.

 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  

Yes I am. If you follow this link 



http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf



you will see a photo showing the gear on the ground with the marked for install flat side forward. If you look at all the other photos of the completed airplane, that happens to be the factory demo plane, you will see that the gear used to be installed with the flat side to the rear. This had the effect of reducing the distance between the main gear and the nose wheel and is supposed to make it easier to keep the nose off the ground when landing. 	




How did you find that pdf file?  It's obviously easy to find if someone like you publishes the link, but how would I have found it without the link?



I'm a builder, but find the navigation of the Zenith website to be a big mystery!  If I'd chosen a plane design based on the companies website design, I sure wouldn't be building a Zenith.



Thanks!

_________________
Dale
Zenith Zodiac CH650

pavel569

Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 77

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Wgt & Bal.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



How did you find that pdf file?  It's obviously easy to find if someone like you publishes the link, but how would I have found it without the link? 	




After you log in to Zenith Aircraft Builder Pages scroll down to "ZODIAC XL Updates and Online Documents". You'll find all the documents related to Zodiac XL there.

_________________
Pavel
CA
Zodiac 601XL
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings, fuselage, canopy done ...
"do not archive"

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Wgt & Bal.

 	  dalemed wrote: 	
		  

How did you find that pdf file?  It's obviously easy to find if someone like you publishes the link, but how would I have found it without the link?



I'm a builder, but find the navigation of the Zenith website to be a big mystery!  If I'd chosen a plane design based on the companies website design, I sure wouldn't be building a Zenith.



Thanks! 	




Since you are building a 650 is or some version of it should be on the CD that came with your plans. But if you follow the "Builder's" link that is in the top right of the Zenith home page you should be able to find it.



http://zenithair.com/bldr/index.html

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

dalemed

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Wgt & Bal.

 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		   	  dalemed wrote: 	
		  

How did you find that pdf file?  It's obviously easy to find if someone like you publishes the link, but how would I have found it without the link?



I'm a builder, but find the navigation of the Zenith website to be a big mystery!  If I'd chosen a plane design based on the companies website design, I sure wouldn't be building a Zenith.



Thanks! 	




Since you are building a 650 is or some version of it should be on the CD that came with your plans. But if you follow the "Builder's" link that is in the top right of the Zenith home page you should be able to find it.



http://zenithair.com/bldr/index.html 	


Thank you Gig and Pavel.  The problem seems to be with my eyesight as much as with the website design

_________________
Dale
Zenith Zodiac CH650

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