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-3 degrees flaps
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

Rule of thumb is max flaps for the level of crosswind and Vso +20%. I have

my Cheltons set to show yellow pitch hat less than 80 kts and red pitch hat

less than 70 knots. Good short field at about 65 kts depending on weight.

When Kaufman and I flew I believe we got the pre stall buffet just above 40

kts with full flaps and just above 50 kts without flaps. That was at a

weight of 2400 pounds. For initial practice I kept him slightly above 70

knots at the flare, this was too fast for short field but very adequate for

normal landing. My aircraft has a pre stall buffet which is easily felt in

the controls. When the buffet is sensed, its time to land or lower the nose

to recover or jam the power forward to go around. Personal opinion is that

if you want to fly the approach at Vso +10% you need gear by Grumman iron

works. In my book there is no such thing as a short field, max cross wind

landing.



--

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

80-75-70 Knots for me (occasionally seeing mid 60’s on my last looks.   

I have been playing around with this a lot recently as one of my regular commute locations is a semi-short strip with a tall palm tree on one end and power lines on the other end. I still can’t land it as short as my 6A but I am getting a lot closer than my first attempts.   

Funny story: Some of my first attempts at landing were at ~5,000’ AGL and I kept floating & floating and I would sink but the runway never got any closer. The first few times I landed the last third of the runway. Smooth but looooong. My first mistake was my 80 Knots over the fence (I was use to my 80 MPH RV-6A) and the second reason I only discovered while fueling up. The runway had a BIG long dip falling away from my landing aircraft.   

   

IMHO - For best results be precise with your speeds.  

   

Robin  

   

   

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim

 Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:26 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: -3 degrees flaps  

  

   

The good part about the navy based process is that it took into account the current weight of the aircraft.  It also uses the "Indicated" stall speed which took into account the pitot system and indicators.  A single pilot might get a low stall speed while a gross weight airplane would yield a higher number.  It was still fun to do the math and then fly the approach.

 

 The -10 is a fun airplane to fly and I know I can slow it down for a short runway.

 

 Jim C

 N312F - 80 hours (Still need to get it painted!)

 

 Do Not Archive

 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 Great info...the AOA makes this pretty easy....pitch up, keep the RPMs up,

 throttle to control decent with positive pitch held just need to call the

 ball....short field "style" seems the best approach...65 knots on final is

 our working best number....but then again the DA has been between 4500 to

 5300.... go figure

 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

 

 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:12 am Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

I find the landings at 5000'AGL to be really really tough too....I seem to float for miles and miles.  Usually my best ones are when I flare at 1-2'AGL. .   (couldn't resist, sorry Robin.). Definitely no harm intended....we all do it. 

Tim



On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:58 PM, "Robin Marks" <[url=mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com]robin1(at)mrmoisture.com (robin1(at)mrmoisture.com)[/url]> wrote:



[quote]    

80-75-70 Knots for me (occasionally seeing mid 60â€™s on my last looks.   

I have been playing around with this a lot recently as one of my regular commute locations is a semi-short strip with a tall palm tree on one end and power lines on the other end. I still canâ€™t land it as short as my 6A but I am getting a lot closer than my first attempts.   

Funny story: Some of my first attempts at landing were at ~5,000â€™ AGL and I kept floating & floating and I would sink but the runway never got any closer. The first few times I landed the last third of the runway. Smooth but looooong. My first mistake was my 80 Knots over the fence (I was use to my 80 MPH RV-6A) and the second reason I only discovered while fueling up. The runway had a BIG long dip falling away from my landing aircraft.   

   

IMHO - For best results be precise with your speeds.  

   

Robin  

   

   

     

From: [url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]] On Behalf Of Jim

 Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:26 PM

 To:  (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]

 Subject: Re: -3 degrees flaps  

  

   

The good part about the navy based process is that it took into account the current weight of the aircraft.  It also uses the "Indicated" stall speed which took into account the pitot system and indicators.  A single pilot might get a low stall speed while a gross weight airplane would yield a higher number.  It was still fun to do the math and then fly the approach.

 

 The -10 is a fun airplane to fly and I know I can slow it down for a short runway.

 

 Jim C

 N312F - 80 hours (Still need to get it painted!)

 

 Do Not Archive

 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 Great info...the AOA makes this pretty easy....pitch up, keep the RPMs up,

 throttle to control decent with positive pitch held just need to call the

 ball....short field "style" seems the best approach...65 knots on final is

 our working best number....but then again the DA has been between 4500 to

 5300.... go figure

 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

 

 --

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:49 am Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

Well when I finally fly I'll have some good numbers. ;>). Rick SkedN246RS

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

From:  Tim Olson 

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:00:08 -0500

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com<rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: RV10-List: -3 degrees flaps

I find the landings at = 5000'AGL to be really really tough too....I seem to float for miles and = miles.  Usually my best ones are when I flare at 1-2'AGL. . =   (couldn't resist, sorry Robin.). Definitely no harm = intended....we all do it. = 

Tim

On Jul 2, 2009, at = 11:58 PM, "Robin Marks" <[url=mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com]robin1(at)mrmoisture.com (robin1(at)mrmoisture.com)[/url]> = wrote:

[quote]  

80-75-70 Knots for me (occasionally seeing mid 60=E2=80=99s on my last looks. = 

I have been playing around with this a lot recently as one of my regular = commute locations is a semi-short strip with a tall palm tree on one end and = power lines on the other end. I still can=E2=80=99t land it as short as my 6A = but I am getting a lot closer than my first attempts.  

Funny story: Some of my first attempts at landing were at ~5,000=E2=80=99 AGL = and I kept floating & floating and I would sink but the runway never got = any closer. The first few times I landed the last third of the runway. = Smooth but looooong. My first mistake was my 80 Knots over the fence (I was use to = my 80 MPH RV-6A) and the second reason I only discovered while fueling up. The = runway had a BIG long dip falling away from my landing aircraft. = 

IMHO - For best results be precise with your speeds. 

Robin 

From:[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-serve= r(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]mailto:owner-rv10-lis= t-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]] On Behalf Of Jim

Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:26 PM

To:  (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]Subject: Re: RV10-List: -3 degrees flaps 

The good part = about the navy based process is that it took into account the current weight of the aircraft.  It also uses the "Indicated" stall speed which took into account the pitot system and indicators.  A single pilot might = get a low stall speed while a gross weight airplane would yield a higher number.  It was still fun to do the math and then fly the = approach.

 The -10 is a fun airplane to fly and I know I can slow it down for a = short runway.

 Jim C

 N312F - 80 hours (Still need to get it painted!)

 Do Not Archive

 = ---------------------------------------------------------------------

 Great info...the AOA makes this pretty easy....pitch up, keep the RPMs = up,

 throttle to control decent with positive pitch held just need to call = the

 ball....short field "style" seems the best approach...65 knots on final is

 our working best number....but then again the DA has been between 4500 = to

 5300.... go figure

 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

 --

eagerlee

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

After rigging the ailerons and wingtips to the  fully retracted flaps,  the wingtips will be in a permanent position that is -3º  up from neutral alignment with the chord of the wing.  Do we really want  our wingtips to be anywhere but spot-on with the chord of the  wing?

  

 Paul  Hahn

   [quote][b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: Re: -3 degrees flaps

As Jim mentioned, don't forget the weight. The -10 can have a large variation in weight. If the over-the-fence  "right" number for you is 70 KIAS at 2700 lbs, then the same "right" number is 60 KIAS at 2000 lbs. Quite a difference!

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

You'll want them optimized for cruise.  You will very rarely use

the zero flap configuration.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Eagerlee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   After rigging the ailerons and wingtips to the fully retracted flaps, 

 the wingtips will be in a permanent position that is -3º up from neutral 

 alignment with the chord of the wing.  Do we really want our wingtips to 

 be anywhere but spot-on with the chord of the wing?

  

 Paul Hahn

rebrunk42(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:11 am Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

Does the flap switch need to be left in the up position after retraction for takeoff to get the -3 position for cruise.



Sent from my iPhone



Robert E. Brunkenhoefer

Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 

520 Lawrence St. 

Corpus Christi, Texas 78401

Phone: 361-888-8808

Facsimile: 361-888-6753

robert(at)brunklaw.com (robert(at)brunklaw.com)

On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:15 PM, "Eagerlee" <eagerlee(at)comcast.net (eagerlee(at)comcast.net)> wrote:



[quote]  After rigging the ailerons and wingtips to the  fully retracted flaps,  the wingtips will be in a permanent position that is -3Âº  up from neutral alignment with the chord of the wing.  Do we really want  our wingtips to be anywhere but spot-on with the chord of the  wing?

  

 Paul  Hahn

    	  Quote: 	
		  



 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

strib99

Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 7

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

strib99

Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 7

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

depends on how you wire it. If you use the FPS system you  may not; but if you control the movement with a simple switch you must. Mine is  a three position. spring loaded in the down position

(flaps going down, push and hold) upon release the motor stops, switch moves to  center. flaps up the switch is moved to the up position and flaps retract automatically and completely. I have a red led to remind me if the motor continues to run after reaching the limit of travel.

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert  Brunkenhoefer

Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:10 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: -3 degrees  flaps

 Does the flap switch need to be left in the up position after retraction  for takeoff to get the -3 position for cruise.

Sent from my iPhone 

 Robert E. Brunkenhoefer

 Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 

 520 Lawrence St. 

 Corpus Christi, Texas 78401

 Phone: 361-888-8808

 Facsimile: 361-888-6753

 robert(at)brunklaw.com (robert(at)brunklaw.com)

On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:15 PM, "Eagerlee" <eagerlee(at)comcast.net (eagerlee(at)comcast.net)>  wrote:

 [quote]      After rigging the ailerons and wingtips to    the fully retracted flaps,    the wingtips will be in a permanent position that is -3º    up from neutral alignment with the chord of the wing.  Do we really want    our wingtips to be anywhere but spot-on with the chord of the    wing?

   Paul    Hahn

 	  Quote: 	

 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

Not only does weight make a difference, but the CG makes a difference in the landing flair too.  Much like a C-172.  Toss a body or two in the back seats and the landing flair is automatic.  Solo or two in front and you will use quite a bit more elevator.  I will toss a 25 bag of shot in the baggage compartment when I fly with just one or two.During my initial Phase 1 early flights, I put 75 lbs in the opposite rear seat.  Moved the CG back enough to make the first flights easier.  Removed them later in the Phase I flights.but I will say this.  This airplane is the most fun flying I have ever had.  Jim CN312F - Flying and loving every minute of it!-----------------------------------------------> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>As Jim mentioned, don't forget the weight. The -10 can have a largevariation in weight. If the over-the-fence  "right" number for you is 70KIAS at 2700 lbs, then the same "right" number is 60 KIAS at 2000 lbs.Quite a difference!--------Bob TurnerRV-10 QBRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51347#251347   [quote][b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

Depends on the flap positioner you use, but if you use the standard

"showplanes" one that Van's sells, then yes, just flip it up and

you'll be at -3.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Does the flap switch need to be left in the up position after retraction 

 for takeoff to get the -3 position for cruise.

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 Robert E. Brunkenhoefer

 Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 

 520 Lawrence St. 

 Corpus Christi, Texas 78401

 Phone: 361-888-8808

 Facsimile: 361-888-6753

 robert(at)brunklaw.com <mailto:robert(at)brunklaw.com>

 

 On Jul 3, 2009, at 1:15 PM, "Eagerlee" <eagerlee(at)comcast.net 

 <mailto:eagerlee(at)comcast.net>> wrote:

 

> After rigging the ailerons and wingtips to the fully retracted flaps, 

> the wingtips will be in a permanent position that is -3º up from 

> neutral alignment with the chord of the wing.  Do we really want our 

> wingtips to be anywhere but spot-on with the chord of the wing?

>  

> Paul Hahn

> *

>

>  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>

> *

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

Yes we do. We want them to be even with the ailerons and flaps.



David Maib

40559



 



 



On Jul 3, 2009, at 2:15 PM, Eagerlee wrote:

After rigging the ailerons and wingtips to the fully retracted flaps, the wingtips will be in a permanent position that is -3º up from neutral alignment with the chord of the wing.  Do we really want our wingtips to be anywhere but spot-on with the chord of the wing?

 

Paul Hahn

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

I think you might be missing the boat if you don't carry  about 20-25# tool box in the baggage area. If you have a maintenance problem  away from home; you are the maintenance man. Many FBOs will not touch your  airplane because they do not have the necessary "data" and continuing  airworthiness data. It won't make any difference if you have a Lycosauras or  something else. BTDT

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Jim

Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:10 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: -3 degrees  flaps

Not only does weight make a difference, but the CG makes a difference  in the landing flair too.  Much like a C-172.  Toss a body or two in  the back seats and the landing flair is automatic.  Solo or two in front  and you will use quite a bit more elevator.  I will toss a 25 bag of shot  in the baggage compartment when I fly with just one or two.

During my  initial Phase 1 early flights, I put 75 lbs in the opposite rear seat.   Moved the CG back enough to make the first flights easier.  Removed them  later in the Phase I flights.

but I will say this.  This airplane is  the most fun flying I have ever had.  

Jim C

N312F - Flying and  loving every minute of  it!

---------------------------------------------

-->  RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"  <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>

As Jim mentioned, don't forget the weight.  The -10 can have a large

variation in weight. If the over-the-fence "right"  number for you is 70

KIAS at 2700 lbs, then the same "right" number is 60  KIAS at 2000 lbs.

Quite a difference!

--------

Bob Turner

RV-10  QB

Read this topic online  here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251347#251347

[quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: -3 degrees flaps

This all got started with a question about alignment.  Van's directions are fairly specific: set the flaps against the rear wing spar doubler (putting them in reflex), align the ailerons to the flaps.  Wingtip ribs actually have the -3 degree shape in them - take a close look at them.  Design intent is for everything to be in alignment at -3 degrees (normal cruise).



Bob

N442PM (flying)



> After rigging the ailerons and wingtips to the fully retracted flaps, the

> wingtips will be in a permanent position that is -3? up from neutral 

> alignment with the chord of the wing. Do we really want our wingtips to

> be anywhere but spot-on with the chord of the wing?

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

Like you, I usually carry a small tool kit with a spare spark plug

of each type, plug wrench, small socket set, multi-screwdriver,

and wrenches.  Then there's the spare quart of oil, and often the

tie-down anchors.  Add to that a small bag of windshield cleaning

supplies and spray wax for the wings, and I've got a little

semi-permanent ballast.  After flying it for a while I've done

plenty of flights just checking things out where I had no ballast

and I find I don't need any ballast for landings to be great, but

keeping those items in there is still a great idea.  There are

so many ways to get stuck on a cross-country kit, I try to keep

a little ready.  After rebuilding my mag I even kept the old

parts in a jar so that I could do a quick bit of field work if

something went amiss.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

David McNeill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I think you might be missing the boat if you don't carry about 20-25# 

 tool box in the baggage area. If you have a maintenance problem away 

 from home; you are the maintenance man. Many FBOs will not touch your 

 airplane because they do not have the necessary "data" and continuing 

 airworthiness data. It won't make any difference if you have a 

 Lycosauras or something else. BTDT

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim

 *Sent:* Friday, July 03, 2009 1:10 PM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: Re: -3 degrees flaps

 

 Not only does weight make a difference, but the CG makes a difference in 

 the landing flair too.  Much like a C-172.  Toss a body or two in the 

 back seats and the landing flair is automatic.  Solo or two in front and 

 you will use quite a bit more elevator.  I will toss a 25 bag of shot in 

 the baggage compartment when I fly with just one or two.

 

 During my initial Phase 1 early flights, I put 75 lbs in the opposite 

 rear seat.  Moved the CG back enough to make the first flights easier.  

 Removed them later in the Phase I flights.

 

 but I will say this.  This airplane is the most fun flying I have ever 

 had. 

 

 Jim C

 N312F - Flying and loving every minute of it!

 

 ---------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 As Jim mentioned, don't forget the weight. The -10 can have a large

 variation in weight. If the over-the-fence "right" number for you is 70

 KIAS at 2700 lbs, then the same "right" number is 60 KIAS at 2000 lbs.

 Quite a difference!

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51347#251347

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 *

 

 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

 href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

 *

 

 *

 

 

 *

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

Excellent point!Jim C--------------------------------------------------------I think you might be missing the boat if you don't carry about 20-25# toolbox in the baggage area. If you have a maintenance problem away from home;you are the maintenance man. Many FBOs will not touch your airplanebecausethey do not have the necessary "data" and continuing airworthiness data.Itwon't make any difference if you have a Lycosauras or something else. BTDT  _____From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JimSent: Friday, July 03, 2009 1:10 PMTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Re: -3 degrees flapsNot only does weight make a difference, but the CG makes a difference inthelanding flair too.  Much like a C-172.  Toss a body or two in the backseatsand the landing flair is automatic.  Solo or two in front and you will usequite a bit more elevator.  I will toss a 25 bag of shot in the baggagecompartment when I fly with just one or two.During my initial Phase 1 early flights, I put 75 lbs in the opposite rearseat.  Moved the CG back enough to make the first flights easier.  Removedthem later in the Phase I flights.but I will say this.  This airplane is the most fun flying I have everhad.Jim CN312F - Flying and loving every minute of it!-----------------------------------------------> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>As Jim mentioned, don't forget the weight. The -10 can have a largevariation in weight. If the over-the-fence "right" number for you is 70KIAS at 2700 lbs, then the same "right" number is 60 KIAS at 2000 lbs.Quite a difference!--------Bob TurnerRV-10 QBRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51347#251347   [quote][b]

rebrunk42(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: -3 degrees flaps

I am experiencing crazing on my windshield that just started suddenly  

a week ago. I use a auto heat shield inside the canopy when I leave it  

on a ramp, but usually it is kept hangared . Any idea what is causing  

this? Has it happened to any one else? 661G is a RV10 2 years old . No  

exposure to chemicals that I am aware of.



Sent from my iPhone



Robert E. Brunkenhoefer

Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.

520 Lawrence St.

Corpus Christi, Texas 78401

Phone: 361-888-8808

Facsimile: 361-888-6753

robert(at)brunklaw.com



On Jul 2, 2009, at 2:28 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:



[quote] 



 I'm not sure if you're saying that I'm wrong, or not. 



 When I said it helps you keep a good climb rate, I was

 intending to mean that you get a tiny bit more lift

 out of the zero degree setting vs. the -3 degree setting.

 So if you're up high over 10,000' and having very

 slow climb rates, you can get a small bump in climb

 rate by going back to zero.  Now, you could also

 get a better climb rate at lower altitudes, but, the -10

 generally climbs so well that it may be just as

 practical to "set it and forget it" once you are climbing

 out.



 Is that correct from your perspective as a Flight Engineer,

 or not?



 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



 John Cumins wrote:

> 

> Ok here comes my 2 cents worth.  Being a retired Flight engineer,  

> we have to

> educate you guys about the -3 degree reflex and zero degrees.  As  

> it has

> been said it is based upon the cord line of the wing.

> If you drew a cord line it would be straight from leading edge to the

> trailing edge of the flaps with the flaps in the 0 degree  

> position.  With

> the flaps in the -3 degree reflex position that cord line would  

> bend up 3

> degrees starting at the leading edge of the flap. So the zero  

> degree position gives the wing its original airfoil shape as

> designed, and the lift verses drag index is a set reference.  Thus  

> higher

> lift and same lift area and the drag index is the set amount as  

> designed.

> The 3 degree position actually just reduces the drag index by  

> bringing the

> aft trailing edge of the wind up and actuallr decreases the amount  

> of lift

> at slower speeds.  Thus the longer take off roll in the -3 degree  

> position.

> But faster cruise speed.   The index of lift vers drag and a very  

> different animal in each airfoil.

> All large air frames use slotted follower flaps to extend the wing  

> area

> making the amount of lift greatly increased vers the drag index of  

> the take

> off flaps position.  This can be very confusing to a lot of people  

> and it is

> about a week class in aero dytnamics to really understand how the  

> wing area-

> lift vers drag and drag index can change greatly with very small  

> amount of

> flap movement.

> I will be glad to chat with any one off line and help educate any  

> one if

> they want a more in detail lesson on this matter.

> Have a great and safe flying weekend and 4th of July,  And GOD  

> bless each and every one of you and this great country.

> John Cumins

> 40864 Priming elevators waiting for it to cool off. -----Original  

> Message-----

> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson

> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:12 AM

> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

> Subject: Re: -3 degrees flaps

> 

> It can help when at high altitudes to keep your

> climb rate better, if you maintain zero degrees.

> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

> David McNeill wrote:

>> 

>>

>> The aircraft was designed to be flown in cruise with reflexed  

>> flaps; why

>> would anyone cruise with partial flaps? My flaps are selected full  

>> up

>> shortly after takeoff. Any hanging flap just increases lift by  

>> increasing

>> angle of attack and thus increases induced drag; hence lower  

>> airspeed for

> a

>> given power setting.

>>

>> --

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