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Left wing low

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naumuk(at)windstream.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:52 am Post subject: Left wing low

All-

     Gig's question about the  relative weights is the next logical step in trying to figure out the cause of  the left wing low syndrome. P factor can be eliminated because LWLS is present  in projects equipped with both right and left prop  rotation engines. Whether it works or not, disrupting the airflow with  either movable aileron trim or fixed tabs cuts down on the overall efficiency.  Is weight distribution really the culprit or is it something else?

     

 Bill Naumuk

Townville, Pa.

HDS N601MG/Corvair  95%

   [quote][b]

leo.gates

Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 35

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: Left wing low

All-



Mine is a HDS, however, I had a "heavy left wing."  During Phase 1 

testing I loaded 175 pounds of weight (sand) in the right seat to 

balance my 175 pounds.  With both wing tanks 1/4 full of fuel, there was 

NO heavy left wing.  Landing/taxi lights are in the left wing.



I have a matronics electric trim tab on the right aileron.  I find I 

adjust trim about every 10 minutes as well as switching fuel tanks 

periodically.



I have a Y stick and fly with my arm resting on the arm rest and two 

fingers on the stick.



Leo Gates

N601Z



Bill Naumuk wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   All-

     Gig's question about the relative weights is the next logical step 

 in trying to figure out the cause of the left wing low syndrome. P 

 factor can be eliminated because LWLS is present in projects equipped 

 with both right and left prop rotation engines. Whether it works or 

 not, disrupting the airflow with either movable aileron trim or fixed 

 tabs cuts down on the overall efficiency. Is weight distribution 

 really the culprit or is it something else?

    

 Bill Naumuk

 Townville, Pa.

 HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%

 *

 *

Juan Vega Jr

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:19 am Post subject: Left wing low

All of you are missing the facts.  Dont shoot the messenger, Ask any aeronautical Engineer, this plane is light wing load, thus,  with weight shifted about it will tend to fly in that direction.  



Juan



--

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Left wing low

 	  Juan Vega Jr wrote: 	
		  All of you are missing the facts.  Dont shoot the messenger, Ask any aeronautical Engineer, this plane is light wing load, thus,  with weight shifted about it will tend to fly in that direction.  



Juan



-- 	




Hence my question to see if most folks left wing is heavy when empty. My thought is, are the people with real heavy left wings heavy on the left side before they even get in.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: Left wing low

On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 12:14:18PM -0700, Gig Giacona wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hence my question to see if most folks left wing is heavy when empty. My

 thought is, are the people with real heavy left wings heavy on the left

 side before they even get in.


	


My weights are 292 nose, 269 right main, 289 left main. My left wing is

definitely heavy when I'm solo in the left seat, but not whe I'm solo in the

right seat.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:39 am Post subject: Left wing low

On Monday 06 July 2009 14:14, Gig Giacona wrote:

<snip>

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Hence my question to see if most folks left wing is heavy when empty. My

 thought is, are the people with real heavy left wings heavy on the left

 side before they even get in.



 --------

 W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

 601XL Under Construction

 See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR


	


Perhaps another fractor may be the weight of the pilot. Although the question 

probably wouldn't be well received, it might be interesting to know pilot 

weight for those aircraft that fly with the port wing low.



=============================================

                Do not archive.

=============================================

                Jim B Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

     Retired aerospace technical manager

=============================================

naumuk(at)windstream.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: Left wing low

Leo-

    So in other words, lack of a copilot makes a difference. What tank 

config? Also, Scott L.- you fly solo/copilot frequently. What handling 

differences have you noticed?

    Angle of arm is a consideration, but who knows, you might be able to 

compensate with multiple battery locations depending on cockpit load. THIS 

IS PURE SPECULATION!!!

                                                                             

        Bill

---

Mitch Hodges

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Powder Springs, GA

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Left wing low

 	  naumuk(at)windstream.net wrote: 	
		  ...you might be able to 

compensate with multiple battery locations depending on cockpit load. --- 	




Reminds me of the design of the original Rotorway Exec (not sure about the current, much evolved version).  They had a weight that slipped either over the right skid when flying solo, or on an attachment hanging off the back of the cockpit centerline when flying with a passenger to compensate. 



Very simple and took just a few seconds to move as part of the checklist.

_________________
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction

leo.gates

Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 35

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: Left wing low

Bill-



Ten Gal. leading edge fuel tanks only.  Landing/taxi lights and pitot 

static tubes on the left wing.  Also, all my gyro instruments (3) are on 

the left side of the instrument panel.  Empty: 316 lb left, 302 lb 

right, 56 lb tail.  Hingless ailerons so I suppose a bit more trim tab 

deflection than hinged version.  I see 25 degrees up and down max. on 

the trim tab.  Does not seem to effect the TAS.  That is not noticeably, 

I'm sure it does to some small extent.



Leo Gates

N601Z CH601HDS TDO



Bill Naumuk wrote:

[quote] 



 Leo-

    So in other words, lack of a copilot makes a difference. What tank 

 config? Also, Scott L.- you fly solo/copilot frequently. What handling 

 differences have you noticed?

    Angle of arm is a consideration, but who knows, you might be able 

 to compensate with multiple battery locations depending on cockpit 

 load. THIS IS PURE SPECULATION!!!

                                                                             

        Bill

 ---

wjones(at)brazoriainet.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: Left wing low

With Jay's weight at 850# ,does my target weight of 750# with a big engine 

seem unattainable .I believe in keeping an aircraft as light as possible 

.Build the plane close to the plans and if you plan to add any extras parts 

,toss the extra parts into the air and if they return to earth they are too 

heavy for your plane . IMHO

Wade  Jones  South East Texas



---

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: Left wing low

On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 04:35:09PM -0500, wade jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   With Jay's weight at 850# ,does my target weight of 750# with a big engine 

 seem unattainable .


	


I suspct it would be hard. Remember, though, that my airplane is fully

loaded with lots of options, all of which add weight. I don't know how

feasible 750 is, but it's a good goal to aim for, and I'd take anything

under 800 (remember, even with long range tanks, that would give you two FAA

standard people and full tanks).

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: Left wing low

On Monday 06 July 2009 16:54, Jay Maynard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 04:35:09PM -0500, wade jones wrote:

 > With Jay's weight at 850# ,does my target weight of 750# with a big

 > engine seem unattainable .



 I suspct it would be hard. Remember, though, that my airplane is fully

 loaded with lots of options, all of which add weight. I don't know how

 feasible 750 is, but it's a good goal to aim for, and I'd take anything

 under 800 (remember, even with long range tanks, that would give you two

 FAA standard people and full tanks).


	


Do you know any FAA standard people? 

-- 

=============================================

                Do not archive.

=============================================

                Jim B Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

     Retired aerospace technical manager

=============================================

Juan Vega Jr

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: Left wing low

simple siolutions.  when flying sol,  fly with right wing full or burn fuerl in left tank first,  

option two i have a tool bag,  20 lbs , in the front right foot well, when flying solo.



Juan



--

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: Left wing low

If I balance the a/c with the aileron trim, I can do left and right turns by 

shifting my body around.  Do I have a heavy left wing?

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: Left wing low

Hi Wade,



I think 750 is a very reachable target empty weight for a CH601XL 

depending on which engine you use.  My plane weighs about 715 without 

paint on the outside and lacking upholstery.  It has a complete 

Jabiru 3300 installed and a relatively complete electronic instrument 

panel.  If you use a heavier engine (Lyc/Cont.) Then perhaps 800 

pounds might be a minimum target.



Paul

XL grounded

At 02:35 PM 7/6/2009, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  With Jay's weight at 850# ,does my target weight of 750# with a big 

engine seem unattainable .I believe in keeping an aircraft as light 

as possible .Build the plane close to the plans and if you plan to 

add any extras parts ,toss the extra parts into the air and if they 

return to earth they are too heavy for your plane . IMHO

Wade  Jones  South

naumuk(at)windstream.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: Left wing low

Dave and all-

    From the list responses, it sounds like about 20 pounds in the right or 

wrong place makes all the difference. Food for thought.

                                                            Bill

---

wjones(at)brazoriainet.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:41 am Post subject: Left wing low

Thanks to all that responded to my post ,and Paul I like your weight .

Wade  Jones  South East Texas



---

wjones(at)brazoriainet.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:42 am Post subject: Left wing low

Thanks to all that responded to my post ,and Paul I like your weight .

Wade  Jones  South East Texas



---

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: Left wing low

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Yup, it's weight. Take any Cessna, fill both tanks to the rim, and go fly.  Slightly left wing heavy, just a tad. Switch to the right tank for about an  hour, and see what happens. Then, run on the left tank until it's almost dry.  Interesting.

  

 Paul R.

 [quote]   ---

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