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EGT quirk

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cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: EGT quirk

Has anyone ever had an EGT gauge not register anything until up and cruising? 

Could it be a loose wire? a faulty probe? a bad gauge?

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:37 am Post subject: EGT quirk

---

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:37 am Post subject: EGT quirk

Cristal,

The answer to all your questions is yes.



Denny

---

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:44 am Post subject: Re: EGT quirk

 	  rowedenny wrote: 	
		  Cristal,

The answer to all your questions is yes.



Denny

--- 	




So this has happened to you?  What did you do to fix it?  I've checked my connections and that looks ok, but those wires ARE tiny and it's not easy to crimp the connectors on...maybe I didn't get it on good but if that were the case it seems like the gauge would work sporadically (on and off anytime) instead of only at cruise.  I hate to buy a new probe or gauge if there's something else I can try that I haven't thought of.



We did put a lighter to the probes and didn't get any response on the gauge.  But last time I flew (and that's been a while cause I've been fixin' on things) one EGT worked fine and the other was doing what I said above.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:13 am Post subject: EGT quirk

At 08:44 AM 7/17/2009, cristalclear13 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  We did put a lighter to the probes and didn't get any response on the 

gauge.  But last time I flew (and that's been a while cause I've been 

fixin' on things) one EGT worked fine and the other was doing what I said 

above.


	


You have two separate gauges?  Good.  Next step is to swap the wires at the 

gauge.  If the problem moves to the other gauge the problem isn't the 

gauge.  Then swap the wires at the sender, to see if he problem is in the 

sender or the connecting wire.  Now you'll have it narrowed down to the 

faulty component.



-Dana

--

  Blow your mind, smoke gunpowder.

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: EGT quirk

When troubleshooting the EGT gauges I use a heat gun on the probe to test it.  Lots easier than installing the probe in the manifold and starting the engine.  You can heat the probe and wiggle the wires to help find a loose connection.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: EGT quirk

Sounds like a loose wire,, something that changes with vibration or heat.



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...


	




Has anyone ever had an EGT gauge not register anything until up and

cruising? 

Could it be a loose wire? a faulty probe? a bad gauge?



--------

Cristal Waters

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: EGT quirk

Cristal, I had an EGT problem as you described. On takeoff, it was reading zero and as I backed off the throttle, it read a normal again. It was the EGT sender probe in the manifold. I replaced it and all was normal.



Ralph B

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

The BaronVonEvil

Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Walla Walla, WA.

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: EGT quirk

Hi Cristal,



I have experienced this same issue with a friend's Challenger II. It was the 

gauge itself that was the problem (Westach). It was a dual EGT gauge and one 

side would was fine while the other side wouldn't register until cruise and 

sometime you had to tap the gauge with your finger for it to start working.



The Gauge is due for replacement as soon as time allows.



Carlos G

AKA

BaronVonEvil

---

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: EGT quirk

Thanks for everyone's advice.  Thought I'd give an update.



I always had a little trouble with my front carb.  The spark plug would always come out black and the EGT when it was working good seemed low (both indicating I was running rich).  That is also the side that my exhaust leak is (still happening even though I replaced the gaskets).  I had my engine/carbs inspected/serviced last year sometime and he updated the needles and jets.  I synced my carbs on the last inspection so I couldn't figure out why one would be running so much richer than the other when they were both set up the same.  The back spark plug was always the nice brown sandy color it is supposed to be.



I took the one carb apart and thought I had a broken needle clip.  I ordered new clips and saw that the new ones have a small slit in them too, so it wasn't broken.  But then I noticed the new one looked like it had a new design to it.  I put the new one on and cleaned off my exhaust probe some (it was pretty black and wet too).  



After doing all that, I flew, and the EGT's were registering almost the same temps.  So I can't help but think that the new clip helped in some way.  A friend of mine said he remembered reading somewhere where there was an advisory of some type to replace that clip.  Apparently cleaning the probe helped the EGT gauge work better too.  The one side still isn't registering during taxi, but I may not have cleaned the probe enough.



I suppose when I check the spark plugs again after flying some more hours, it'll tell me more.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: EGT quirk

Cristal, The concern with needle clips is that they be so tight on the needle that the needle will not turn in the clip. Engine vibration will cause the needle to turn in the clip and will gradually turn down the needle until it wears through. Another update to prevent this is a small o-ring that sits on top of the clip and under the spring cup. I'm sure you already know this, but you didn't mention it so...... 



Rick Girard

do not archive



On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:44 PM, cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)>

  

 Thanks for everyone's advice.  Thought I'd give an update.

 

 I always had a little trouble with my front carb.  The spark plug would always come out black and the EGT when it was working good seemed low (both indicating I was running rich).  That is also the side that my exhaust leak is (still happening even though I replaced the gaskets).  I had my engine/carbs inspected/serviced last year sometime and he updated the needles and jets.  I synced my carbs on the last inspection so I couldn't figure out why one would be running so much richer than the other when they were both set up the same.  The back spark plug was always the nice brown sandy color it is supposed to be.

  

 I took the one carb apart and thought I had a broken needle clip.  I ordered new clips and saw that the new ones have a small slit in them too, so it wasn't broken.  But then I noticed the new one looked like it had a new design to it.  I put the new one on and cleaned off my exhaust probe some (it was pretty black and wet too).

  

 After doing all that, I flew, and the EGT's were registering almost the same temps.  So I can't help but think that the new clip helped in some way.  A friend of mine said he remembered reading somewhere where there was an advisory of some type to replace that clip.  Apparently cleaning the probe helped the EGT gauge work better too.  The one side still isn't registering during taxi, but I may not have cleaned the probe enough.

  

 I suppose when I check the spark plugs again after flying some more hours, it'll tell me more.

 

 --------

 Cristal Waters

 Kolb Mark II Twinstar

 Rotax 503 DCSI

 

 

 

 

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zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: EGT quirk

Christal

    Remember that there are 4 gaskets on the 503 exhaust.2 under the tin shroud to the block and 2 on top of the shroud to the manifold.JBM makes a tough gasket for all the Rotax engines at a better price.Any leak there will change the tuning of the engine.You may not have a carb problem.

   G.Aman

   

 

   

 

   

 

 --

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:24 am Post subject: Re: EGT quirk

 	  aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  Cristal, The concern with needle clips is that they be so tight on the needle that the needle will not turn in the clip. Engine vibration will cause the needle to turn in the clip and will gradually turn down the needle until it wears through. Another update to prevent this is a small o-ring that sits on top of the clip and under the spring cup. I'm sure you already know this, but you didn't mention it so...... 



Rick Girard 	




The small o-ring was mentioned/required by my DAR when I got my airworthiness certificate two years ago November, but thanks for mentioning.



The new needle clip seemed more sturdy of a design.  I didn't see any wear on the needle itself.

 	  zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  Christal

    Remember that there are 4 gaskets on the 503 exhaust.2 under the tin shroud to the block and 2 on top of the shroud to the manifold.JBM makes a tough gasket for all the Rotax engines at a better price.Any leak there will change the tuning of the engine.You may not have a carb problem.

   G.Aman

 -- 	




I replaced all four gaskets.  The leak was less after changing them but still there.  Maybe I'll try the ones from JBM.  Not looking forward to the operation though.  That was really a pain changing out those inside gaskets (as mentioned in a previous thread).

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: EGT quirk

> I replaced all four gaskets.  The leak was less after changing them but 

still there.  Maybe I'll try the ones from JBM.  Not looking forward to the 

operation though.  That was really a pain changing out those inside gaskets 

(as mentioned in a previous thread).

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 --------

 Cristal Waters


	




Rotax two strokes, in my day, were notorious for leaking/oozing a black gook 

between the exhaust manifold and the cylinder.



If it was mine, and there was no actual "exhaust gas leak", I'd wipe it down 

once in a while, and keep on flying.  I doubt that is going to change the 

tuning.



However, if it was bad enough to leak exhaust gas, then I'd go to the 

trouble of replacing gaskets.



Seems as though there could have been a better system than sandwiching the 

cooling tin between the manifold and the cylinder, but no one ever came up 

with a better way.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

beauford

Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 127
Location: Brandon, FL

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:04 am Post subject: EGT quirk

Miss Cristal:

One other thing you might consider checking on the carb which is 

running rich is the enrichment or

"choke" piston.  If this little piston is not fully seating due to 

misadjusted cable, crud in

the seat, or deteriorated rubber seal in the base of the piston, it 

can easily produce the

symptoms you describe.  A small leak in the enrichment circuit can 

produce substantial effects.



Worth what ye paid fer it...



beauford

FF-076

Brandon, FL



---

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: EGT quirk

It will make the replacement a bit tougher, but it will stop small leaks. Coat the gaskets with copper RTV, the ultra high temp stuff, and allow to cure before firing up the engine.Before the experts start hollering, this is a standard fix for Harley Shovelhead owners. The exhaust system is held on with a single bolt and weight keeps it seated. Been working for 15 plus years now even with the weight of a Supertrapp 2 into 1. Just so I'm not accused of theorizing. 

 



Rick Girard

do not archive



On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Beauford T <beauford173(at)verizon.net (beauford173(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford T" <beauford173(at)verizon.net (beauford173(at)verizon.net)>

  

 Miss Cristal:

 One other thing you might consider checking on the carb which is

 running rich is the enrichment or

 "choke" piston.  If this little piston is not fully seating due to

 misadjusted cable, crud in

 the seat, or deteriorated rubber seal in the base of the piston, it

 can easily produce the

 symptoms you describe.  A small leak in the enrichment circuit can

 produce substantial effects.

 

 Worth what ye paid fer it...

 

 beauford

 FF-076

 Brandon, FL

 

 ---

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: EGT quirk

 	  beauford wrote: 	
		  Miss Cristal:

One other thing you might consider checking on the carb which is 

running rich is the enrichment or

"choke" piston.  If this little piston is not fully seating due to 

misadjusted cable, crud in

the seat, or deteriorated rubber seal in the base of the piston, it 

can easily produce the

symptoms you describe.  A small leak in the enrichment circuit can 

produce substantial effects.



Worth what ye paid fer it...



beauford

FF-076

Brandon, FL



--- 	




Beauford, This advice was worth MUCH more than what I paid fer it!  Thank you!  I also thank Ronnie Smith at MSLA because as soon as I told him my most recent symptoms (advancing the throttle and no or very poor response), he mentioned it seemed to be running too rich for the altitude.  He first suggested changing the idle jet.  So I was actually taking my carbs off to see what size jets I had when I discovered that choke seal on my front carb was totally deteriorated.  See the pics.

deteriorated choke seal3.jpg

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deteriorated choke seal1.jpg

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10212 Time(s)

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

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