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chris Sinfield
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Sydney Australia
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 Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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Hi
speaking of intercoms, I just bought a new Icom 210 and want to put it into my 2 seater. Does the 2 place VOX system work OK should I have a seperate 2 place intercom.
I just want to be able to talk to my pax, TX from either position and have an MP3 input. to both..
Chris.
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trumanst(at)neitel.net
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:25 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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Chris,Mine is wired as you indicate you want yours done. It works as advertised.
The only thing, is setting the squelch level for the intercom to break, is not well explained. After getting the values set, there is no method to save the setting. If turned off, it will go back to default, which is too low for my plane. Once reset again, pushing the button IN saves the changes. I just guessed.
I am having issues with the radio receiving though. Sent it back last fall. They changed the firmware, and re-seated some boards. It has worked fine till yesterday. It will not receive. If turned off, and back on, it works fine. But for how long? I will call tech support once again. They know my voice.
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200 N7868B 135 hours
Luana, IA.
On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:09 PM, chris Sinfield wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au (chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au)>
Hi
speaking of intercoms, I just bought a new Icom 210 and want to put it into my 2 seater. Does the 2 place VOX system work OK should I have a seperate 2 place intercom.
I just want to be able to talk to my pax, TX from either position and have an MP3 input. to both..
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
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Sam
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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Kevin - funny you should mention that. Yesterday I was running the engine with the intercom turned on, for the first time. I couldn't adjust the VOX squelch enough to prevent it coming on, anywhere above 1,500 RPM. They don't seem to have enough range in the adjustment. Let me know if you hear anything from their Tech Support.
Sam
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Kevin Boddicker <trumanst(at)neitel.net (trumanst(at)neitel.net)> wrote:
[quote] Chris,Mine is wired as you indicate you want yours done. It works as advertised.
The only thing, is setting the squelch level for the intercom to break, is not well explained. After getting the values set, there is no method to save the setting. If turned off, it will go back to default, which is too low for my plane. Once reset again, pushing the button IN saves the changes. I just guessed.
I am having issues with the radio receiving though. Sent it back last fall. They changed the firmware, and re-seated some boards. It has worked fine till yesterday. It will not receive. If turned off, and back on, it works fine. But for how long? I will call tech support once again. They know my voice.
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200 N7868B 135 hours
Luana, IA.
On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:09 PM, chris Sinfield wrote:
[b]
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trumanst(at)neitel.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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Sam,I got mine to work but had to set the squelch to 25 (I think) and then push the button to save it. If I did not save it and turned it off, it would default to 15. The default setting would open up squelch and I could hear the background noise.
I don't know for sure what RPM, but on TO roll it would open.
My visit with tech support today was to identify my lack of reception. I have no other problems. That I know about. I left a message with the service manager. He is to call me back. Looks like another trip to the service dept. for my A 210. I asked them about a replacement radio. Tech support skirted that issue fairly fast.
Kevin
On Jul 6, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Sam Hoskins wrote:
[quote]Kevin - funny you should mention that. Yesterday I was running the engine with the intercom turned on, for the first time. I couldn't adjust the VOX squelch enough to prevent it coming on, anywhere above 1,500 RPM. They don't seem to have enough range in the adjustment. Let me know if you hear anything from their Tech Support.
Sam
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Kevin Boddicker <trumanst(at)neitel.net (trumanst(at)neitel.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Chris,Mine is wired as you indicate you want yours done. It works as advertised.
The only thing, is setting the squelch level for the intercom to break, is not well explained. After getting the values set, there is no method to save the setting. If turned off, it will go back to default, which is too low for my plane. Once reset again, pushing the button IN saves the changes. I just guessed.
I am having issues with the radio receiving though. Sent it back last fall. They changed the firmware, and re-seated some boards. It has worked fine till yesterday. It will not receive. If turned off, and back on, it works fine. But for how long? I will call tech support once again. They know my voice.
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200 N7868B 135 hours
Luana, IA.
On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:09 PM, chris Sinfield wrote:
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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At 01:41 PM 7/6/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | Kevin - funny you should mention that. Yesterday I was running the
engine with the intercom turned on, for the first time. I couldn't
adjust the VOX squelch enough to prevent it coming on, anywhere
above 1,500 RPM. They don't seem to have enough range in the
adjustment. Let me know if you hear anything from their Tech Support.
|
Keep in mind that adjustable VOX systems are WATCHING for
an increase in signal from the microphone which it ASSUMES
is YOU TALKING. Depending on microphone's signal to noise
radio (ability to cancel background noise), increases
in cabin noise will cause the VOX system to open up and
requires resetting the threshold level.
I've never encountered a microphone/intercom combination
that did not require readjustment for engine off versus
climb versus level flight conditions. If the microphone
noise canceling abilities are poor, then some VOX systems
will be unable to make the distinction between your voice
and other noises in the cabin. Cabin noise varies greatly
from one airplane to another.
I worked with a customer some years ago to add a
combination of active frequency filters and a software
driven threshold detector that could make a distinction
between syllabic voice signals and the relatively
constant characteristics of cabin noise. But even this
system could be undone if you didn't use a pretty good
noise cancelling microphone with it.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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klehman(at)albedo.net
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:54 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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This seems to have been solved in the Flighttech intercom although in a
different manner. I believe he uses a telephone noise cancelling chip on
the mic. Anyway I find that it works perfectly for me with no detectable
background noise on the ground or in the air, and no delays or clipped
speech. Unlike VOX systems, no cabin noise comes through when talking
either!
It does not affect my VHF icom A200 transmissions as those don't route
through the intercom chip.
Ken
| Quote: |
I worked with a customer some years ago to add a
combination of active frequency filters and a software
driven threshold detector that could make a distinction
between syllabic voice signals and the relatively
constant characteristics of cabin noise. But even this
system could be undone if you didn't use a pretty good
noise cancelling microphone with it.
Bob . . .
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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At 11:09 PM 7/4/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: |
<chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Hi
speaking of intercoms, I just bought a new Icom 210 and want to put
it into my 2 seater. Does the 2 place VOX system work OK should I
have a seperate 2 place intercom.
I just want to be able to talk to my pax, TX from either position
and have an MP3 input. to both..
|
I think the A210 shares an intercom feature with many
other compact comm radios like the Microair, X760, etc.
The intercom is a "hot mike" system using the radios
side-tone circuits that are energized with a push-to-talk
button. I.e., with the intercom button pressed, both
individuals hear each other and themselves speak.
Unless the noise cancelling capability of the headset
microphones is quite good, you would not want to leave
the system in the "intercom hot" condition all the time.
You'd get tired of listening to the cabin noise (or
even hearing the passenger chew his/her gum).
I've flown airplanes with PTT intercoms and personally,
like them. It cuts down on idle chatter (due to the
inconvenience of having to operated the button), and
eliminates the VOX setting creep induced by changes in
cabin noise levels.
Most folks don't like this feature . . . I note that
I didn't even show the PTT intercom button to pin
10 in my wiring diagrams. I'll suggest you give it
a try. You can always add a VOX based intercom later.
Your music system can be injected to one of the
aux audio input pins C, D or 3.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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Thruster87
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Icom A-210 intercom |
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Just installed the icom 210a as per the diagram Bob posted earlier.It receives just fine but the mics are dead.Using 2 x Ray Allen grips [601xl Y grips] with the PTT switches and 2 place phone and mic wired in parallel.Should pin 10 be grounded via a switch for the intercom to work as well???? Thank you [intercom selected on in the menu as per default setting that the radio came with]
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Thruster87
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Icom A-210 intercom |
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Is this ok for a Circuit diagram for a 2 place, 2 x ptt no external intercom ?????? Cheers
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Icom A210 Ciruit.pdf |
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Thruster87
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Icom A-210 intercom |
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Icom A210 receiving and transmitting just fine but the bloody intercom won't co-operate at all.I must be missing something in the menu setup so any help would be appreciated. Cheers
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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At 10:50 PM 7/24/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Icom A210 receiving and transmitting just fine but the bloody
intercom won't co-operate at all.I must be missing something in the
menu setup so any help would be appreciated. Cheers
|
Can you describe your observations of symptoms?
"Won't cooperate" as a symptom does not bring ideas
to mind.
The intercom function of most of the small radios
is a "hot mic" activated by a push to talk button
that simply engages the transmitter's side tone
(listen to yourself) feature. Hence no squelch
adjustment for voice activated opening of the
signal channel . . . and no separate volume control
for intercom versus receiver. This is an exceedingly
minimalist (but very robust) approach to an intercom
function. However, it is nothing like that which is found
in most airplanes. Perhaps it's working as intended
but you're expecting something different?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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Sam
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:23 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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Here is the installation diagram and operating manual
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/avionics/panelmount/a210/default.aspx
On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
At 10:50 PM 7/24/2009, you wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Thruster87"
>> <alania(at)optusnet.com.au (alania(at)optusnet.com.au)>
|
| Quote: | >
> Icom A210 receiving and transmitting just fine but the bloody intercom
> won't co-operate at all.I must be missing something in the menu setup so any
>> help would be appreciated. Cheers
|
| Quote: |
Can you describe your observations of symptoms?
"Won't cooperate" as a symptom does not bring ideas
to mind.
The intercom function of most of the small radios
> is a "hot mic" activated by a push to talk button
|
| Quote: | that simply engages the transmitter's side tone
(listen to yourself) feature. Hence no squelch
adjustment for voice activated opening of the
> signal channel . . . and no separate volume control
|
| Quote: | for intercom versus receiver. This is an exceedingly
minimalist (but very robust) approach to an intercom
function. However, it is nothing like that which is found
> in most airplanes. Perhaps it's working as intended
|
| Quote: | but you're expecting something different?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
|
| Quote: | ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
|
| Quote: | ---------------------------------------
- The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
re, and much much more:
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igator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-L=====================
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
==
[quote][b]
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www.samhoskins.blogspot.com |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:26 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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At 09:09 AM 7/25/2009, you wrote:
Aha! This is more to this little critter than I realized.
I might have expected this from Icom. I'll have to
study up. Thanks for the heads-up.
In the mean time "Thruster87" might we know your name
along with a better description of the problems you're
having?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
--------------------------------------- [quote][b]
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Thruster87
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Icom A-210 intercom |
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Hi Bob,I was expecting it to just activate [intercom] without a separate button,so one just speaks and the other person hears you.Pressing the PTT it transmits OK and the passenger can also hear what you say and both can hear just fine the incoming calls.I have not tried connecting the intercom switch to pin 10 Intercom IN and joining to pin 9 PTT + as I understand it,it should not require this switch to operate as a VOX intercom.I also sent a copy of the [2 place no separate intercom] wiring diagram to Icom OZ and the techi there said everything was OK. Cheers Alan [610xl builder almost ready to start taxi run testing]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:07 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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At 05:00 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Hi Bob,I was expecting it to just activate [intercom] without a separate button,so one just speaks and the other person hears you.Pressing the PTT it transmits OK and the passenger can also hear what you say and both can hear just fine the incoming calls.I have not tried connecting the intercom switch to pin 10 Intercom IN and joining to pin 9 PTT + as I understand it,it should not require this switch to operate as a VOX intercom. Cheers Alan [610xl builder almost ready to start taxi run testing]
|
After reading through the available installation data
on the Icom IC-A210 I've discovered that the 210 is
a head-n-shoulders upgrade from the 200. Most noteworthy
are extensive audio management features with functions
and gains set by software using a front panel menu
system.
Another interesting feature is what appears to be
rear connector plate options. The stock input/output
connector plate works with the same Molex wires-to-
ecb style of harnes connector . . . same as the A200.
The A210 install kit comes with an "MB-113" adapter
module to convert the legacy molex connnector interface
[img]cid:.0[/img]
To the more robust Dsub 15 connector.
[img]cid:.1[/img]
If we look at the A210 installation data . . .
http://tinyurl.com/nxw5jm
. . . we see that half of the 30 wires available
in the Molex pin-out are available in Dsub
pinout and in different combinations. For example,
only 2 of the 6 power/gnd connections are available
in the Dsub. The Molex doesn't offer the RS232
GPS interface option. The Molex connection offers
3 aux audio inputs, the Dsub offers only one.
Certainly, the Dsub pinouts offer enough
features to accomplish a perfectly useful installation
in an airplane.
Getting back to the intercom issue, we see that
there's a raft of menu driven audio performance
setup features. Further, pin 10 (intercom enable)
in the Molex connector does not appear on the
Dsub connector. Admittedly, with out a schematic
of the MB-113 adapter, we don't know if Molex 10
is simply ignored or is tied to ground by the
adapter. Further, functionality of the intercom
ground to activate connection is not explained. It's
illustrated in the Molex wiring as a useful thing
to attache to an intercom PTT button, but in the
user's manual . . .
http://tinyurl.com/nsvye4
the use of this push button is not explained. However,
on the description of panel controls we see that
item (1) DUAL SWITCH has a time-based function
(hold for 2+ seconds) to turn the intercom function
ON or OFF.
It would be nice if the manuals were more complete in
this regard. I'll keep an eye open for the service
manual on this radio. Schematics are VERY useful in
figuring out how things work. Does anyone on the List
have an A210 installed and working who can help Alan
sort through this radio's intercom functionality?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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jay(at)horriblehyde.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: Icom A-210 intercom |
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I have installed one of these (A210) in conjunction with a PM1000II intercom (from PS-Engineering) on a 4 seater aircraft where there I need more than 2 intercom stations. It was a bit of nightmare; I couldn’t get the two systems working- the headphones worked fine but the mic circuits wouldn’t work properly (I am still busy with that project). Recently I had to install the PM1000II on the Sling (that little aircraft that is making its way between the Virgin Islands and Florida as I write!) where it interfaced to a Garmin SL30 nav/ comm radio.
This time I called PS themselves and checked up on a few things. One of the things that I discovered was that one must not put an ‘aux PTT’ in the same way that they call for ‘aux mic and phone jacks’. I have yet to test the A210/ PM1000 system after removing this item but I can tell you that the SL30/ PM1000 combination worked just fine when I left the ‘aux PTT’ out- so perhaps that’s one of the problems?
As a matter of interest, PS Eng told me that the PTT’s are hard wired through so that, even if (in the unlikely event of failure, ladies and gentleman…) there is a failure with PM1000 the PTT’s will still work.
Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jay Hyde
HH Enterprises
Aircraft Manufacture, Engineering and Flying
jay(at)horriblehyde.com (jay(at)horriblehyde.com)
Mobile phone: 083 300 8675
International: +27 83 300 8675
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: 27 July 2009 06:06 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A-210 intercom
At 05:00 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Hi Bob,I was expecting it to just activate [intercom] without a separate button,so one just speaks and the other person hears you.Pressing the PTT it transmits OK and the passenger can also hear what you say and both can hear just fine the incoming calls.I have not tried connecting the intercom switch to pin 10 Intercom IN and joining to pin 9 PTT + as I understand it,it should not require this switch to operate as a VOX intercom. Cheers Alan [610xl builder almost ready to start taxi run testing]
After reading through the available installation data
on the Icom IC-A210 I've discovered that the 210 is
a head-n-shoulders upgrade from the 200. Most noteworthy
are extensive audio management features with functions
and gains set by software using a front panel menu
system.
Another interesting feature is what appears to be
rear connector plate options. The stock input/output
connector plate works with the same Molex wires-to-
ecb style of harnes connector . . . same as the A200.
The A210 install kit comes with an "MB-113" adapter
module to convert the legacy molex connnector interface
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CA0EEA.5B85C530[/img]
To the more robust Dsub 15 connector.
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CA0EEA.5B85C530[/img]
If we look at the A210 installation data . . .
http://tinyurl.com/nxw5jm
. . . we see that half of the 30 wires available
in the Molex pin-out are available in Dsub
pinout and in different combinations. For example,
only 2 of the 6 power/gnd connections are available
in the Dsub. The Molex doesn't offer the RS232
GPS interface option. The Molex connection offers
3 aux audio inputs, the Dsub offers only one.
Certainly, the Dsub pinouts offer enough
features to accomplish a perfectly useful installation
in an airplane.
Getting back to the intercom issue, we see that
there's a raft of menu driven audio performance
setup features. Further, pin 10 (intercom enable)
in the Molex connector does not appear on the
Dsub connector. Admittedly, with out a schematic
of the MB-113 adapter, we don't know if Molex 10
is simply ignored or is tied to ground by the
adapter. Further, functionality of the intercom
ground to activate connection is not explained. It's
illustrated in the Molex wiring as a useful thing
to attache to an intercom PTT button, but in the
user's manual . . .
http://tinyurl.com/nsvye4
the use of this push button is not explained. However,
on the description of panel controls we see that
item (1) DUAL SWITCH has a time-based function
(hold for 2+ seconds) to turn the intercom function
ON or OFF.
It would be nice if the manuals were more complete in
this regard. I'll keep an eye open for the service
manual on this radio. Schematics are VERY useful in
figuring out how things work. Does anyone on the List
have an A210 installed and working who can help Alan
sort through this radio's intercom functionality?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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Thruster87
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Icom A-210 intercom |
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I did the 2 second push on the Dual button and the screen shows the ics as on and still no go.Spoke to Icom techi with whom we went thru the menu but still no go . Might look at putting a intercom in. Cheers Alan
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Thruster87
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Icom A-210 intercom |
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It's voodoo I tell you . I just switched on the A210 and the bloody intercom is working just fine now.Looks like it just needed a rest. Maybe it got a fright as I was just about to start cutting wires and installing a separate intercom [403] so thanks for all your help. cheers Alan
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