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Time for a new PC 680 ?

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sarg314(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

I have a PC-680 that I bought 2 or 3 years ago. I used it to test my electrical system while I was wiring the plane.Â  I've recharged it with a motorcycle battery charger.Â  It spent 99% of it's time doing nothing.Â  Never had much of a demand place on it.Â  Still seems to hold a charge well.Â  My engine start is going to be in September, probably.Â  

 

Should I replace this battery before I fly?Â  It would seem prudent, though I note they've gone up in price about 30% since I bought this one. 

-- 

Tom Sargent

  [quote][b]

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

I bought 2 PC680s a couple of years ago.  Mainly did nothing but 

notably, they were left in various stages of discharge for some period. 



One just lost a cell.  I'm still using both of them for avionics work 

and keeping them charges but I will be swapping both out when I go 

flying (next year?).



thomas sargent wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have a PC-680 that I bought 2 or 3 years ago. I used it to test my 

 electrical system while I was wiring the plane.  I've recharged it 

 with a motorcycle battery charger.  It spent 99% of it's time doing 

 nothing.  Never had much of a demand place on it.  Still seems to hold 

 a charge well.  My engine start is going to be in September, probably. 



 Should I replace this battery before I fly?  It would seem prudent, 

 though I note they've gone up in price about 30% since I bought this one.



 -- 

 Tom Sargent

 *

 *

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

If you have kept it on a smart charger and you are  electrically dependant..then no do not replace it..It will be just  fine.

  

 If you have charged it occasionally but your running  magnetoes and a mechacnical fuel pump...then once again it will be  fine.

  

 If you Have electronic ignitions and electric fuel pumps  (and have not kept it regularly smart charged) , but it cranks over the engine  then do all your phase one (day VFR) flying and consider replacing  then....Before you do long cross country flying where you might need the full  capacity of the battery to get you to a safe spot.

  

 if it won't start the engine..well the choice is  obvious.

  

 Frank

  

  



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas  sargent

Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:52 AM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Time for a  new PC 680 ?

 

I have a PC-680 that I bought 2 or 3 years ago. I used it to test my  electrical system while I was wiring the plane.  I've recharged it with a  motorcycle battery charger.  It spent 99% of it's time doing nothing.   Never had much of a demand place on it.  Still seems to hold a charge  well.  My engine start is going to be in September, probably.   



Should I replace this battery before I fly?  It would seem prudent,  though I note they've gone up in price about 30% since I bought this one. 

-- 

Tom Sargent

[quote]



ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

thorps18(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

I would replace it, but if you have a magneto, you could probably get by.  I had one of these in my motorcycle for 6 years before it needed replacing.  IIRC, Mr. Nuckolls recommends changing every two years, but this may be for dual electronic ignition aircraft.

 

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:52 AM, thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com (sarg314(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] I have a PC-680 that I bought 2 or 3 years ago. I used it to test my electrical system while I was wiring the plane.  I've recharged it with a motorcycle battery charger.  It spent 99% of it's time doing nothing.  Never had much of a demand place on it.  Still seems to hold a charge well.  My engine start is going to be in September, probably.  

  

Should I replace this battery before I fly?  It would seem prudent, though I note they've gone up in price about 30% since I bought this one. 

-- 

Tom Sargent

   	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

Speaking of charging the 680. Do I really need one of those hyped up fancy chargers all the dealers sell for double deep-reduction, super reserve, cranks like a wild monkey charging? Sounds like a bunch of marketing to get to 13.2 volts. I’ve got a Walmart job that seems to do the same thing.  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Janzen

 Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 2:15 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Time for a new PC 680 ?  

I would replace it, but if you have a magneto, you could probably get by.  I had one of these in my motorcycle for 6 years before it needed replacing.  IIRC, Mr. Nuckolls recommends changing every two years, but this may be for dual electronic ignition aircraft.    

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:52 AM, thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com (sarg314(at)gmail.com)> wrote:  

I have a PC-680 that I bought 2 or 3 years ago. I used it to test my electrical system while I was wiring the plane.  I've recharged it with a motorcycle battery charger.  It spent 99% of it's time doing nothing.  Never had much of a demand place on it.  Still seems to hold a charge well.  My engine start is going to be in September, probably.  

 Should I replace this battery before I fly?  It would seem prudent, though I note they've gone up in price about 30% since I bought this one.  

 -- 

 Tom Sargent   	  Quote: 	
		    ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	

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      [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:41 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

At 11:52 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have a PC-680 that I bought 2 or 3 years ago. 

I used it to test my electrical system while I 

was wiring the plane.Â  I've recharged it with a 

motorcycle battery charger.Â  It spent 99% of 

it's time doing nothing.Â  Never had much of a 

demand place on it.Â  Still seems to hold a 

charge well.Â  My engine start is going to be in September, probably.Â



Should I replace this battery before I fly?Â  It 

would seem prudent, though I note they've gone 

up in price about 30% since I bought this one.


	


    You are now squarely facing the question that will

    confront you for the entire time that you own this

    airplane. What are YOUR conditions for continued

    airworthiness? What are YOUR plans for monitoring

    battery suitability to task? The decision to fly

    or replace the battery today is no different than

    the decisions to be made in years hence.



    Even if it starts the engine you need to know more.

    Hook a car headlamp and voltmeter to your fully

    charged battery and monitor the time to take the

    battery down to 10.5 volts. Is that enough time

    to give you confidence in this battery's performance

    for ANY flight?



    There are thousands of worry-words exchanged on

    the 'net every day about, "should I our shouldn't

    I replace this battery?"  Lord Kelvin was credited

    with saying . . .



    "When you cannot express it in numbers, your

     knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory

     kind."



    So while preparing for first flight, I'll suggest

    it is prudent to also prepare for responsible and

    confident operation of your airplane. All the worry-

    words exchanged without the benefit of data are

    essentially useless. Figure out a practical way to

    "get the numbers". Then you can tell US whether

   or not the battery needs replacing.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

At 08:55 AM 8/4/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Speaking of charging the 680. Do I really need one of those hyped up 

fancy chargers all the dealers sell for double deep-reduction, super 

reserve, cranks like a wild monkey charging? Sounds like a bunch of 

marketing to get to 13.2 volts. I've got a Walmart job that seems to 

do the same thing.


	


    Yes, YES, YEEEESS!  What "walmart" device do you

    have? Know that one of the least expensive devices

    I've purchased from Walmart was the Schumacher

    1562 series devices for under $20 and is one of

    the smartest chargers you can buy. There is no

    longer any excuse for doing it right.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

I need this clarified. HE asks if he needs one of those hyped up chargers.

The response is "yes yes yes" but then it sounds like the answer is "no no

no"... That the Walmart charger is good enough.



Do I have that right?



 



--

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

At 09:45 AM 8/4/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



At 08:55 AM 8/4/2009, you wrote:

>Speaking of charging the 680. Do I really need one of those hyped 

>up fancy chargers all the dealers sell for double deep-reduction, 

>super reserve, cranks like a wild monkey charging? Sounds like a 

>bunch of marketing to get to 13.2 volts. I've got a Walmart job 

>that seems to do the same thing.



    Yes, YES, YEEEESS!  What "walmart" device do you

    have? Know that one of the least expensive devices

    I've purchased from Walmart was one of the Schumacher

    1562 series device for under $20 and is one of

    the smartest chargers you can buy. There is no

    longer any excuse for NOT doing it right.


	


     Got it right this time . . .

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

bwolf1(at)tds.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

I think Bob is saying, "There is no longer an excuse for NOT doing it right".  Buy the Walmart charger.



Brooke



On Aug 4, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Bob Collins wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net)>



I need this clarified. HE asks if he needs one of those hyped up chargers.

The response is "yes yes yes" but then it sounds like the answer is "no no

no"... That the Walmart charger is good enough.



Do I have that right?



--

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

..since I'm looking through the archives right now, I'll take a crack 

at it...



Yes, you do want and need a good 'smart' charger.  A good smart charger 

can be had a good price where ever stuff is sold, like Walmart.  But 

presumably there's junk out there too.  And perhaps more importantly, 

some smart chargers that are better than others. 



So I'm going smart shopping....



I believe Bob has documented the specific performance we should look for 

and I remember a graph of a good performing charger.  I'm looking for it 

now.



Bob Collins wrote:

[quote] 



 I need this clarified. HE asks if he needs one of those hyped up chargers.

 The response is "yes yes yes" but then it sounds like the answer is "no no

 no"... That the Walmart charger is good enough.



 Do I have that right?



  



 --

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

Here's a link with several embedded links on subject

http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Multiple_Battery_Myths_A.pdf

here's the chart:

http://tinyurl.com/553kmu



Bob Collins wrote:

[quote] 



 I need this clarified. HE asks if he needs one of those hyped up chargers.

 The response is "yes yes yes" but then it sounds like the answer is "no no

 no"... That the Walmart charger is good enough.



 Do I have that right?



  



 --

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

Thanks Bob,



Yup, this one looks like mine. Schumacher SEM-1562A 1.5 Amp Slow Charge

Battery Companion



$25 - $30 on Amazon.



Glenn



--

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

At 11:16 AM 8/4/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks Bob,



Yup, this one looks like mine. Schumacher SEM-1562A 1.5 Amp Slow Charge

Battery Companion



$25 - $30 on Amazon.



Glenn


	


===========



And $18.xx at any Walmart with no shipping.



BTW, don't mislead the newbes. The subject is a "battery maintainer" 

not a smart charger.

PW

dewittw(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue of Kitplanes and the article titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?



 Bob Fritz, who wrote the article, says the following:



  "Last month we went through battery basics and saw that different requirements translate into different hardware. We’d been trying to find an approach to this subject for a couple of months when we were contacted by Bill Woods of VDC Electronics with an offer to assist in a piece on battery chargers and how they relate to aviation batteries. He was enthusiastic about a new charger the company had developed specifically for aviation and wanted to tell us about it. 

  "Sensing an opportunity for some new information, we continued the conversation. For the sake of objectivity we also contacted representatives at Concord and Odyssey, and then spent the day at a Teledyne Battery 101 class. Teledyne is the maker of Gill batteries. It soon became apparent that this was really two stories, one about batteries and another about battery chargers."



  "Number six (a 12248-AA-S3, Dee) is a desulfating charger designed specifically for Odyssey 12-volt batteries...."



  "Given the results (see the chart), would I recommend the units from VDC? I’d have to say yes, partly in light of the dismal results displayed by those chargers obtained at the auto parts store, and partly because of knowledge gained from a broad range of sources.... 



  "Another factor in my thumbs up to the BatteryMINDer from VDC is that it’s the only charger I’ve seen that included a third wire with a ring lug. Said lug sends a temperature reading back to the black box and adjusts the power going to the battery according to the temperature of the battery. The ideal output of 13.1 volts is valid for a battery temperature of 77° F (25° C). Let the battery temp go above 125° F (52° C), and serious damage will be done. So when the battery goes above that 25° C, the sensor sends a signal that throttles back the output 28 millivolts per degree C. "



 And under a photo of the five chargers he tested is the following caption:



  Five chargers and four levels of performance. Note also that the two chargers on the upper right are from BatteryMINDer. One is labeled is the 12248-AA-S3 for “Odyssey type” batteries, and the other is the S2, for conventional flooded-cell batteries. These chargers are designed for specific applications and, although they will work on, say, your car, for the best battery life the charger should match.  After checking with Marc Cook, Editor of Kitplanes, he made it clear we should only consider the 12248-AA-S3 charger for our Eggenfellner E6 3.6L, electrically dependent engine. That costs $189.95 from BatteryMINDers or VDC. What are your thoughts?



 Also, we are not clear how we would attached this charger to our dual Odyssey 680 batteries. Must we charge each one separately since apparently there is only one temperature sensing lead? And if we charged them together, would this charger handle them each correctly since one could be a year older than the other if we follow your suggestion of replacing one battery each year?



 

 Dee

 

 DeWitt (Dee) Whittington

 406 N Mulberry St

 Richmond, VA 23220-3320

 (804) 358-4333 phone and fax

 SKYPE: hilltopkid

 dee.whittington(at)gmail.com     [quote][b]

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:50 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

OK I am coming up on 3 years with my original Odyssey 680,  I am completely electrically dependant..Electronic ignitions, Fuel pumps (I  don't have a mechanical fuel pump) and I fly in IMC..I have a single battery and  a backup SD8 alternator.

  

 I will probably do a load test on the Odyssey this year but  if it gives me decent range on min power then  its not getting  changed.

  

 it spends almost all of its life on a smart  charger.

  

 Frank RV7



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DeWitt  Whittington

Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:37 AM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Time  for a new PC 680 ?

 

Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue of Kitplanes and  the article titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?



Bob Fritz, who  wrote the article, says the following:



    "Last month we went through battery basics and saw that    different requirements translate into different hardware. We’d been trying to    find an approach to this subject for a couple of months when we were contacted    by Bill Woods of VDC Electronics with an offer to assist in a piece on battery    chargers and how they relate to aviation batteries. He was enthusiastic about    a new charger the company had developed specifically for aviation and wanted    to tell us about it. 

   "Sensing an opportunity for some new information, we continued the    conversation. For the sake of objectivity we also contacted representatives at    Concord and Odyssey, and then spent the day at a Teledyne Battery 101 class.    Teledyne is the maker of Gill batteries. It soon became apparent that this was    really two stories, one about batteries and another about battery    chargers."



   "Number six (a 12248-AA-S3, Dee) is a desulfating charger    designed specifically for Odyssey 12-volt batteries...."



   "Given the results (see the chart), would I recommend the    units from VDC? I’d have to say yes, partly in light of the dismal results    displayed by those chargers obtained at the auto parts store, and partly    because of knowledge gained from a broad range of sources.... 



   "Another factor in my thumbs up to the BatteryMINDer from VDC is that it’s    the only charger I’ve seen that included a third wire with a ring lug. Said    lug sends a temperature reading back to the black box and adjusts the power    going to the battery according to the temperature of the battery. The ideal    output of 13.1 volts is valid for a battery temperature of 77° F (25° C). Let    the battery temp go above 125° F (52° C), and serious damage will be done. So    when the battery goes above that 25° C, the sensor sends a signal that    throttles back the output 28 millivolts per degree C.  "



And under a photo of the five chargers he tested is  the following caption:



    Five chargers and four levels of performance. Note also that    the two chargers on the upper right are from BatteryMINDer. One is labeled is    the 12248-AA-S3 for “Odyssey type” batteries, and the other is the S2,    for conventional flooded-cell batteries. These chargers are designed for    specific applications and, although they will work on, say, your car, for the    best battery life the charger should match. After checking with  Marc Cook, Editor of Kitplanes, he made it clear we should only consider the  12248-AA-S3 charger for our Eggenfellner E6 3.6L, electrically dependent engine.  That costs $189.95 from BatteryMINDers or VDC. What are your  thoughts?



Also, we are not clear how we would attached this charger to  our dual Odyssey 680 batteries. Must we charge each one separately since  apparently there is only one temperature sensing lead? And if we charged them  together, would this charger handle them each correctly since one could be a  year older than the other if we follow your suggestion of replacing one battery  each year?

Dee

 

DeWitt (Dee) Whittington

406 N Mulberry St

Richmond, VA  23220-3320

(804) 358-4333 phone and fax

SKYPE:  hilltopkid

dee.whittington(at)gmail.com [quote]



ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

[quote]    

   



Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue of Kitplanes    and the article titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?



Bob Fritz,    who wrote the article, says the following:



        "Last month we went through battery basics and saw that      different requirements translate into different hardware. We’d been trying      to find an approach to this subject for a couple of months when we were      contacted by Bill Woods of VDC Electronics with an offer to assist in a      piece on battery chargers and how they relate to aviation batteries. He was      enthusiastic about a new charger the company had developed specifically for      aviation and wanted to tell us about it. 

     "Sensing an opportunity for some new information, we continued the      conversation. For the sake of objectivity we also contacted representatives      at Concord and Odyssey, and then spent the day at a Teledyne Battery 101      class. Teledyne is the maker of Gill batteries. It soon became apparent that      this was really two stories, one about batteries and another about battery      chargers."



     "Number six (a 12248-AA-S3, Dee) is a desulfating charger      designed specifically for Odyssey 12-volt batteries...."



     "Given the results (see the chart), would I recommend the      units from VDC? I’d have to say yes, partly in light of the dismal results      displayed by those chargers obtained at the auto parts store, and partly      because of knowledge gained from a broad range of sources.... 



     "Another factor in my thumbs up to the BatteryMINDer from VDC is that      it’s the only charger I’ve seen that included a third wire with a ring lug.      Said lug sends a temperature reading back to the black box and adjusts the      power going to the battery according to the temperature of the battery. The      ideal output of 13.1 volts is valid for a battery temperature of 77° F (25°      C). Let the battery temp go above 125° F (52° C), and serious damage will be      done. So when the battery goes above that 25° C, the sensor sends a signal      that throttles back the output 28 millivolts per degree C.      "



And under a photo of the five chargers he tested is    the following caption:



        Five chargers and four levels of performance. Note also      that the two chargers on the upper right are from BatteryMINDer. One is      labeled is the 12248-AA-S3 for “Odyssey type” batteries, and the      other is the S2, for conventional flooded-cell batteries. These chargers are      designed for specific applications and, although they will work on, say,      your car, for the best battery life the charger should match.    After checking with Marc Cook, Editor of Kitplanes, he made    it clear we should only consider the 12248-AA-S3 charger for our Eggenfellner    E6 3.6L, electrically dependent engine. That costs $189.95 from BatteryMINDers    or VDC. What are your thoughts?



 	  Quote: 	
		           There may be some very minor advantage to this super intelligent temperature monitoring charger but...  Think of where your battery resides most of the time.        It is in your airplane, enduring wide temperature swings, and tied to your electrical system.  Do you suppose that there is this much monitoring of the temp         and the input and output currents to your battery, while in your plane??  I think NOT, in about 99% of the aircraft.  The little Schumacher battery charger / maintainer         is much more gentle than any aircraft electrical system when connected to your battery.         If you are going to spend $185 for a charger then maybe you want to look into better control and monitoring of the battery in the aircraft.         Proper battery maintenance and regular interval load testing is always necessary, especially in an all electric aircraft.          You may get a slitely longer interval between battery replacements, by investing in a "super gee whizz whow" charger, but is it worth it?           Roger 	
[b]

thorps18(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

This, about Batteryminder, is interesting too:



http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=41000



 On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Roger <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net (mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

[quote]         	  Quote: 	
		      

   



Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue of Kitplanes    and the article titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?



Bob Fritz,    who wrote the article, says the following:



        "Last month we went through battery basics and saw that      different requirements translate into different hardware. We’d been trying      to find an approach to this subject for a couple of months when we were      contacted by Bill Woods of VDC Electronics with an offer to assist in a      piece on battery chargers and how they relate to aviation batteries. He was      enthusiastic about a new charger the company had developed specifically for      aviation and wanted to tell us about it. 

     "Sensing an opportunity for some new information, we continued the      conversation. For the sake of objectivity we also contacted representatives      at Concord and Odyssey, and then spent the day at a Teledyne Battery 101      class. Teledyne is the maker of Gill batteries. It soon became apparent that      this was really two stories, one about batteries and another about battery      chargers."



     "Number six (a 12248-AA-S3, Dee) is a desulfating charger      designed specifically for Odyssey 12-volt batteries...."



     "Given the results (see the chart), would I recommend the      units from VDC? I’d have to say yes, partly in light of the dismal results      displayed by those chargers obtained at the auto parts store, and partly      because of knowledge gained from a broad range of sources.... 



     "Another factor in my thumbs up to the BatteryMINDer from VDC is that      it’s the only charger I’ve seen that included a third wire with a ring lug.      Said lug sends a temperature reading back to the black box and adjusts the      power going to the battery according to the temperature of the battery. The      ideal output of 13.1 volts is valid for a battery temperature of 77° F (25°      C). Let the battery temp go above 125° F (52° C), and serious damage will be      done. So when the battery goes above that 25° C, the sensor sends a signal      that throttles back the output 28 millivolts per degree C.      "



And under a photo of the five chargers he tested is    the following caption:



        Five chargers and four levels of performance. Note also      that the two chargers on the upper right are from BatteryMINDer. One is      labeled is the 12248-AA-S3 for “Odyssey type” batteries, and the      other is the S2, for conventional flooded-cell batteries. These chargers are      designed for specific applications and, although they will work on, say,      your car, for the best battery life the charger should match.    After checking with Marc Cook, Editor of Kitplanes, he made    it clear we should only consider the 12248-AA-S3 charger for our Eggenfellner    E6 3.6L, electrically dependent engine. That costs $189.95 from BatteryMINDers    or VDC. What are your thoughts?



 	  Quote: 	
		           There may be some very minor advantage to this super intelligent temperature monitoring charger but...  Think of where your battery resides most of the time.

        It is in your airplane, enduring wide temperature swings, and tied to your electrical system.  Do you suppose that there is this much monitoring of the temp         and the input and output currents to your battery, while in your plane??  I think NOT, in about 99% of the aircraft.  The little Schumacher battery charger / maintainer 

        is much more gentle than any aircraft electrical system when connected to your battery.         If you are going to spend $185 for a charger then maybe you want to look into better control and monitoring of the battery in the aircraft.

         Proper battery maintenance and regular interval load testing is always necessary, especially in an all electric aircraft.  

        You may get a slitely longer interval between battery replacements, by investing in a "super gee whizz whow" charger, but is it worth it?   

        Roger 	
	
    	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:57 am Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

 	  Quote: 	
		      



  Bob, I'm confused. Have you seen the August issue of Kitplanes and the article titled, "Are All Battery Chargers Alike?"?



  Bob Fritz, who wrote the article, says the following:



  "Last month we went through battery basics and saw that different requirements translate into different hardware. 	
          <snip>



  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  

        There may be some very minor

advantage to this super intelligent temperature monitoring charger

but...  Think of where your battery resides most of the time.



        It is in your airplane,

enduring wide temperature swings, and tied to your electrical

system.  Do you suppose that there is this much monitoring of the

temp 



        and the input and output

currents to your battery, while in your plane??  I think NOT, in

about 99% of the aircraft.  The little Schumacher battery charger /

maintainer 



        is much more gentle than any

aircraft electrical system when connected to your battery.



 

        If you are going to spend $185

for a charger then maybe you want to look into better control and

monitoring of the battery in the aircraft.

 

        Proper battery maintenance and

regular interval load testing is always necessary, especially in an all

electric aircraft.  



        You may get a slitely longer

interval between battery replacements, by investing in a "super gee

whizz whow" charger, but is it worth it?  



	
	
  



    ABSOLUTELY!  It's interesting to source the constellation of "requirements"

    tossed about with so much allusion to practical significance. This

    "Odyssey versus the charger world" battle has been raging for some years.

    Arguments have bounced around like ping-pong balls in box rolling

    down hill.



    I have yet to see the results of any repeatable experiments

    that demonstrate a positive return on investment for having

    $purchased$ any "super-charger" combined with the $time$ needed

    to apply it to practical management of a battery in an airplane

    of any size but in particular, an RV8.



    I'm working on a IR&D project for a new lead acid battery that

    shows great promise for increased performance, lighter weight

    and longer life. However, this isn't going to hit the market

    as an inexpensive battery. Quite the contrary. This is why

    we're mulling over ideas for optimized maintenance tools to

    built right into the battery itself. The formula that evaluates

    return on investment has a lot of variables that are themselves

    somewhat ethereal. It's not easy.



    In the mean time, the infomercials are in constant

    competition for your attention, time and money. 



    Bob . . .    [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: Time for a new PC 680 ?

At 12:11 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>



Here's a link with several embedded links on subject

http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Batteries/Multiple_Battery_Myths_A.pdf

here's the chart:

http://tinyurl.com/553kmu


	


   Just finished unloading the car after returning

   from our trip to Colorado Springs. Look back over the

   past posts . . .



   Understand that few alternative chargers will produce

   recharge curves identical to that cited above. They've

   got a few things in common.



   Relatively constant charge to a top-off level on the

   order of 14.5 to 15.0 volts.



   Sustained operation at the top-off level until recharge

   current drops below some arbitrary but low level on the

   order of 100 mA . . . or perhaps simply based on time

   like 2 hrs in top-off mode. It's not critical.



   After that, output voltage goes down to some value just

   above 13.0 volts indefinitely.



   The Shumacher 1562 series devices have been tested

   and found to be an exemplary value from Walmart

   at about $20. A number of devices from Harbor Freight

   have been looked and some were found inadequate to

   the protocols cited above. The Battery Tender/Battery Minder

   products are also good. But there are dozens of others

   and I've not tested but a very few. Make it easy on yourself

   Go get the Schumacher device (or any Schumacher smart product)

   from Walmart.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

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