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Rotec TBI success story

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

I bought a Rotec TBI-40 mechanical fuel injection system while at  

Oshkosh, and spent the last 3 1/2 days making the throttle control  

bellcrank, the air intake tube adapter, and the fuel line, and after  

all checks and double-checks, I fired her up. The TBI performed as  

advertised....right out of the box. The first flight will come  

tomorrow. As advertised, this thing will not drip fuel like the other  

well-known Bing replacement on the market. Nothing against them, but  

I am VERY happy I made the decision...so far, anyway. Flying might be  

another thing, but  so far, so good.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 720 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Soon to have Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: working on TBI installation...very close to completion

do not archive



On Aug 3, 2009, at 4:51 PM, Ted Palamarek wrote:



[quote] 

 <temco(at)telusplanet.net>



 Rich



 If I'm not mistaken that is Stan Specht's plane from Colorado. I  

 think he

 calls his plane Columbine after the State flower.



 I'm copying Stan with this msg and he will probably confirm whether  

 it is

 his machine.



 Ted Palamarek

 Edmonton, AB



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

Lynn keep us posted. Â I spent a couple sessions with Paul at the Rotek booth. Â The TBI is on my list of things to do this winter on the R3600 installed in my Hatz Classic.



John

---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

At 04:09 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  As advertised, this thing will not drip fuel like the other

well-known Bing replacement on the market. Nothing against them, but

I am VERY happy I made the decision...so far, anyway. Flying might be

another thing, but  so far, so good.


	


God Lynn, you're so terse. Can't get you to open up at all.  What 

is the "other system" you're referring to; I don't know of any 

available on the open market.



Thanks,

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Boilermaker2000

Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 11
Location: West Lafayette, IN

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Rotec TBI success story

 	  Guy Buchanan wrote: 	
		  What is the "other system" you're referring to; I don't know of any available on the open market. 	




I assume he is referring to the AeroCarb.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

I was referring to the Aerocarb. I didn't want to mention the name  

because I think the Aerocarb folks have got a radar that sniffs out  

any mention of the "A" word and sends bad vibes your way. Kinda  

kidding, but there was a guy who bad-mouthed the A'carb, and got  

removed from the Yahoo group for his bad reports. It might have been  

deserved, I don't know all the facts about it.

The Aerocarb is sold by the Sonex folks, and they swear by it. Some  

owners of the A'carb have expressed having great difficulty in  

getting them to work right, and others....those that follow the  

instructions, perhaps....bolt them on and tweak a little and go  

flying. The Jabiru engine site on Yahoo, periodically has a lot of  

give-and-take on the subject, and once in a while the Sonex folks  

will chime in with a reminder to follow the instructions and the carb  

will work just fine.

And when I said "Bing replacement" I didn't mean to suggest that the  

Rotec TBI-40 is a parallel swap for the Bing. I meant to say that it  

is another option for folks who want to explore another form of fuel  

system....and I love to try something new.

P.S. "terse" had me scrambling for the dictionary....I hadn't heard  

that word in ages. : )  Just how old ARE you, Guy? : )

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 720 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Soon to have Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: working on TBI installation...very close to completion

On Aug 3, 2009, at 11:37 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 04:09 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:

> As advertised, this thing will not drip fuel like the other

> well-known Bing replacement on the market. Nothing against them, but

> I am VERY happy I made the decision...so far, anyway. Flying might be

> another thing, but  so far, so good.

 God Lynn, you're so terse. Can't get you to open up at all.   

 What is the "other system" you're referring to; I don't know of any  

 available on the open market.

 Thanks,

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

Three good flights today. After first tying the plane to a farm  

implement and running it up for nearly a minute at 2880 static, I  

took off with about the same "feel" as with the Bing. Rpm was  

2850-2910 or so, but what bothered me was the fuel flow indicator was  

showing 4.5-4.7 gals/hr, where before with the Bing, it would show  

6.6-6.8 gph. Later on, after flying it at various throttle settings,  

I found that as I increased the throttle from 3000, it would read  

3040, 3050, 3060, 3070 ok, then any more throttle and the rpm would  

drop. This is probably why Jabiru/Bing say not to alter the WOT  

setting which is a stop on the carb. In fact in the literature that  

came with the TBI (either in the lit, or it was Paul, the Rotec tech  

that said it) it says that you may have to stop the throttle short of  

fully open. Tomorrow I will insert some slotted washers behind the  

throttle control to prevent the knob from hitting the panel. It might  

just be that my low fuel use during takeoff was an indication that I  

had reached the point where the rpm's would drop, and this is what  

caused the low fuel-burn numbers. After I do this simple "throttle  

stop with washers", I'll note where it starts to bog down, and adjust  

the cable accordingly. I'm hoping to see better flow numbers after  

this change. If I don't, I'll have to look elsewhere to find the cause.



One thing about the mixture control....it takes some getting used to  

it, after having relied on the Bing to do the work. It's amazing how  

fast you can see those EGT number change when tweaking the "red knob."



Rotec 3600 in a Hatz?....must be nice, John!!



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 720 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway

do not archive



On Aug 3, 2009, at 8:23 PM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:



[quote] Lynn keep us posted.  I spent a couple sessions with Paul at the  

 Rotek booth.  The TBI is on my list of things to do this winter on  

 the R3600 installed in my Hatz Classic.



 John

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Rotec TBI success story

Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line.  When I went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH WOT.  Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH.



I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed 800.  Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid.  120 HP and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what!

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

It seems low, Leonard, but today I was climbing at 800 fpm at 8200'  

altitude, and it kept right on climbing, for as long as I held the  

stick back, so it must be ok. It just doesn't seem right....

I can't wait to make a trip with it and see how much fuel I burn in a  

practical test. I'm getting bored "runnin' up and down the same ol'  

strip, gotta find a new place where the kids are hip"

...geez, did I REALLY say that?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 723.8 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway

On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:54 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line.  When I  

 went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH  

 WOT.  Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH.



 I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY  

 less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed  

 800.  Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid.  120 HP  

 and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what!



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 56239#256239

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Boilermaker2000

Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 11
Location: West Lafayette, IN

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:01 am Post subject: Off Topic: Rotec TBI success story

What is the big obstacle in getting fuel injection for the Rotax two strokes?  Seems like this would have been figured out by now, but the only thing that comes up in a google search is a really expensive one that was shown at AirVenture 1998.

ltaylor02(at)Chartermi.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:44 am Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

Hirth has FI on their two strokes and as someone mentioned earlier, 

snowmobiles have used FI on their Rotax powered two strokes for many years.

---

Av8r3400

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Off Topic: Rotec TBI success story

 	  Boilermaker2000 wrote: 	
		  What is the big obstacle in getting fuel injection for the Rotax two strokes? 	




Lawyers.  As soon as any of the component manufacturers hear aircraft they either run for cover or increase pricing by a factor of 10 (or more).  This is the same reason for the lack of fuel injection on the 900 series motors.



This is not me pontificating, this came from Brian from LEAF and Phil Lockwood during their seminars at Airventure.

_________________
Thanks,
Av8r3400

Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
YouTube Videos

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:37 am Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

Hmmmm, can we possibly get lawyers barred from the field of aviation because 

of the hazards they provide by indirectly stopping inovation that could make 

our machines safer. It is simple logic to me,but who am I?   ;o)   Larry



---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

Boilermaker2000

Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 11
Location: West Lafayette, IN

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Off Topic: Rotec TBI success story

 	  Av8r3400 wrote: 	
		  As soon as any of the component manufacturers hear aircraft they either run for cover or increase pricing by a factor of 10 (or more). 	




It seems like there should be an aftermarket atv/pwc set-up that is available. I'm not aware of a two-stroker used on a certified/production aircraft, so it doesn't seem much different than all of the other non-aviation parts we use.  Except that we would want it to be pretty reliable and keep the engine making noise.

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

Like I said Lynn, pancakes in Cadillac Saturday and/or at Sugar Springs Sunday. Be there or be square. 

  

 Marco Menezes N99KX

 Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch

  

 do not archive

  

 



--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

Subject: Re: Re: Rotec TBI success story

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 8:39 PM



 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>



It seems low, Leonard, but today I was climbing at 800 fpm at 8200' altitude, and it kept right on climbing, for as long as I held the stick back, so it must be ok. It just doesn't seem right....

I can't wait to make a trip with it and see how much fuel I burn in a practical test. I'm getting bored "runnin' up and down the same ol' strip, gotta find a new place where the kids are hip"

....geez, did I REALLY say that?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 723.8 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway

On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:54 PM, akflyer  wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com (akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line.  When I went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH WOT.  Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH.

 

 I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed 800.  Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid.  120 HP and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what!

 

 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

  

 hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256239#256239

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 http:========================


	


	


         [quote][b]

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

That's like blaming the axe for the axe murder, Larry. People tend to forget that Lawyers are just tools. It takes a litigious individual or grieving family to file the multimillion dollar product liability lawsuit that results in stifled innovation. (Not to mention a receptive jury).  

  

 Our aircraft are, afterall, "experimental." So, we experiment/ innovate and to hell with potential litigation. And, if the snowmachine, boat, auto or homemade part installed in our airplane fails, we resist the temptation to look for someone to sue.

  

 Marco Menezes N99KX

 Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch

  

 do not archive



--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Larry Huntley <asq(at)roadrunner.com> wrote:



 [quote]

From: Larry Huntley <asq(at)roadrunner.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Rotec TBI success story

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:35 AM



 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq(at)roadrunner.com (asq(at)roadrunner.com)>



Hmmmm, can we possibly get lawyers barred from the field of aviation because of the hazards they provide by indirectly stopping inovation that could make our machines safer. It is simple logic to me,but who am I?   ;o)   Larry



---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:26 am Post subject: Rotec TBI success story

Count me in for Sunday....Cadillac is a bit of a jaunt (geez, ever  

since I bought this Rotec TBI from the blokes in Australia, I've  

adapted their lingo) for me right now, but the Sugar Springs thing  

sounds like my kind of mission. I've been venturing further and  

further away from 'home' each time I fly it since I installed the new  

fuel  system, and I don't want to get too far away in case something  

goes bad.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 724.6 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway

do not archive



On Aug 6, 2009, at 9:37 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Like I said Lynn, pancakes in Cadillac Saturday and/or at Sugar  

 Springs Sunday. Be there or be square.



 Marco Menezes N99KX

 Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch



 do not archive



 --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:



 From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Subject: Re: Re: Rotec TBI success story

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 8:39 PM



 



 It seems low, Leonard, but today I was climbing at 800 fpm at 8200'  

 altitude, and it kept right on climbing, for as long as I held the  

 stick back, so it must be ok. It just doesn't seem right....

 I can't wait to make a trip with it and see how much fuel I burn in  

 a practical test. I'm getting bored "runnin' up and down the same  

 ol' strip, gotta find a new place where the kids are hip"

 ....geez, did I REALLY say that?



 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 723.8 hrs

 Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway

 On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:54 PM, akflyer wrote:



 > 

 <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 >

 > Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line.  When I  

 went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH  

 WOT.  Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH.

 >

 > I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY  

 less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed  

 800.  Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid.  120 HP  

 and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what!

 >

 > --------

 > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 > Soldotna AK

 > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > 582 IVO IFA

 > Full Lotus 1450

 > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

 >

 > hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 56239#256239

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > http:========================



 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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