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Need advice on instruments

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:53 am Post subject: Need advice on instruments

Clyde C all

  

   With regard to gauges C this is likely the same unending argument just like peoples' oil preference C VG usage C or Rotax/non-Rotax.  Very difficult to get a concensus......

  

   But C the fact of the matter is BOTH have their virtues!!!  Analog style (often affectionately referred to as "steam gauges") are simple C generally very dependable C and are easy to monitor.  Nothing wrong with a panel full of them!!

   However C a few digital gauges C or a combination unit employing many functions C is hard to beat.  Many can be programmed to flash a light C or sound an alarm if a parameter is exceeded.

  

   For some pilots C an occational scan of the steam gauges is just plain good piloting skills.  Once you learn where a needle should settle at C a quick glance every few minutes gives peace of mind.  Other folks like the comfort of knowing that if something is "brewing" C and they didn't happen to notice C a light/alarm will help them take early actions.

  

   Hey C I've got an idea!  Why not a combination of both worlds??  For some functions C why not count on some quality steam gauges?  Fuel level C oil temp C ammeter C etc.  These tasks can easily be  handled by gauges.  You can learn to scan them...you DO have a job to do sitting in the pilot's seat C don't you??

   Then C include a few sophistocated electronic gauges C the kind that you know LEDs are gonna blare at you if troubles a'comin'.  

  

   Having a combination of analog AND digital gauges is what lead me to build my panel.

  

   Here is what I came up with;

 A) digital Dynon D10A Electronic Flight information system C which includes the following functions...airspeed C altitude C magnetic heading C AOA C ROC C turn coordination C and an artificial visual view of outside

 B) digital wideband O2 sensor C with programmable alarm for exceeded air/fuel ratios

 C) digital turbo charger boost gauge C with programmable excessive boost alarm

 D) analog fuel C oil C water temp C volts gauges

 E) digital clock (Honda Civic C IIRC)

 F) analog airspeed gauge

 G) analog vertical airspeed

  

   Each guy will have his or her own preferences C with regard to gauges.  None are wrong C just looked at from different angles.

   Here's a photo of what I came with........

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII CX C 90% done C 90% to go

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clydemacquarrie(at)eastli
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: Need advice on instruments

Hi Mike.   I like the looks of your air speed  indicator. Could you give me the model and source. Thanks, Clyde

 [quote]   ---

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: Need advice on instruments

Clyde C

  

 UMA Instruments:

 Airspeed Model# 16-310-120 C Vertical Speed Model#8-310-20

  

   I purchased them from a guy on eBay that decided not to build an airplane C after he had purchased many of the necessary parts.  They were (and still are) brand new C and I paid $120 for the pair.

   I also have a different airspeed indicator I bought on eBay.  It's new C too C but it says "CPS" (California Power Systems Logo) on the face.  It reads up to 100 mph.  If I were to use it C I would take it apart and paint over the advertisement.  

   Since I found a different set (the UMA ones) I let the CPS unit sit on a shelf.

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

  

  

 

 

  Date: Tue C 11 Aug 2009 13:25:51 -0300

From: clydemacquarrie(at)eastlink.ca

Subject: Re: RE: Need advice on instruments

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com



  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}   Hi Mike.   I like the looks of your air speed indicator. Could you give me the model and source. Thanks C Clyde

 [quote] ---

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: Need advice on instruments

Mike,

  

     I hope you have better luck than I did with your  UMA       ASI      I  tried making several  different venturies  all to no avail. Mounted  static source everywhere I could think. Nothing helped!  It still read  20 mph slow ! I  finally gave in and bought a Winter ASI  as  John H. suggested.  A little bit pricey but money well spent as It was very  accurate at the get go. Just a thought if you have trouble. 

  

              Ed  Diebel       FF# 62  in Houston  a  measly 130    hours.

  

  In a message dated 8/11/2009 6:59:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Since    I found a different set (the UMA ones) I let the CPS unit sit on a    shelf.

 

Mike  Welch

MkIII

	


 

  [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: Need advice on instruments

Thanks for the tips C Ed.  I'm not so worried about pricey C since the Dynon was well over $2500.  Plus C I'm not going to rely on just one instrument C hence the analog UMA airspeed indicator C the Dynon airspeed indicator C and my Garmin 296 GPS.



 



If my UMA A/S indicator doesn't do it's job properly C it'll go into the "round file" C el rapido!!



 



Your advice is welll noted C and appreciated.  We'll see how it performs..

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:55 am Post subject: Need advice on instruments

If I understand this correctly, Mike W is grouping  his Garmin 296 with his other two air speed indicators.

  

 I didn't know the 296  had an ASI capability???

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]    

Thanks for the tips, Ed.  I'm    not so worried about pricey, since the Dynon was well over $2500.  Plus,    I'm not going to rely on just one instrument, hence the analog UMA    airspeed indicator, the Dynon airspeed indicator, and my Garmin 296    GPS.

 

 Mike Welch

MkIII

 [b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:43 am Post subject: Need advice on instruments

John H C

  

   I meant I was using more than one method of knowing if an airspeed indicator is functioning properly.  Using different forms and gauges of comparison C to check for accuracy.

  

   I am well aware that a GPS isn't an airspeed indicator.  Thanks for pointing it out.

  

 Mike Welch

 

  From: jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Need advice on instruments

Date: Wed C 12 Aug 2009 05:36:22 -0500



  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}   If I understand this correctly C Mike W is grouping his Garmin 296 with his other two air speed indicators.

  

 I didn't know the 296 had an ASI capability???

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		    

Thanks for the tips C Ed.  I'm not so worried about pricey C since the Dynon was well over $2500.  Plus C I'm not going to rely on just one instrument C hence the analog UMA airspeed indicator C the Dynon airspeed indicator C and my Garmin 296 GPS.

 

 Mike Welch

MkIII

 



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Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: Need advice on instruments

Great!  I knew you knew the  difference.

  

 Some folks are of the understanding they can use  the GPS ground speed for flying.  Ground speed works great for navigation  but not aviation. 

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]      I am well aware that a GPS isn't an    airspeed indicator.  Thanks for pointing it out.

 

Mike    Welch

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:21 am Post subject: Need advice on instruments

Nothing helped!  It still read  20  mph 

slow ! I  finally gave in and bought a Winter ASI  as   John H. suggested.>>

  

 Hi,

 did youj also fit the pitot at the base of the  starboard wing strut, where John told me he has his fitted. If not.  where?

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Need advice on instruments

[quote="pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com"]Nothing helped!  It still read  20  mph 

slow ! I  finally gave in and bought a Winter ASI  as   John H. suggested.>>

  

 Hi,

 did youj also fit the pitot at the base of the  starboard wing strut, where John told me he has his fitted. If not.  where?

  

 Pat

    	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




For what it's worth, my FSII had the pitot sticking right out of the front of the nosecone. A piece of aluminum tubing stuck out about 6" or so to get the end out of the sort of compressed area right in front of it.



It seemed to work pretty well, I tried to get an idea of where it was with the GPS but as others have said, that's a very error-prone method of gauging airspeed so I don't know how accurate the ASI ended up being.



After a while I hardly used it anyway so never worked on it that hard but that seemed like a good location for the pitot (except that running into it on a walkaround was very easy so you want a breakaway design for that location)....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:12 am Post subject: Need advice on instruments

running into it on a walkaround was very easy so you want a breakaway design 

for that location)...>>



Hi,

i had the pitot fitted unerneath the noce cone on my Xtra and wiped it off 

in long grass, twice.



Pat

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: Need advice on instruments

Patrick:

  

 Ed D is using a venturi operated Winter ASI.   No pitot tube.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]    

    Nothing helped!  It still read     20 mph 

slow ! I  finally gave in and bought a Winter ASI     as  John H. suggested.>>

    

   Hi,

   did youj also fit the pitot at the base of the    starboard wing strut, where John told me he has his fitted. If not.    where?

    

   Pat

 	  Quote: 	
		   	
[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: Need advice on instruments

At 10:55 AM 8/13/2009, lucien wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  For what it's worth, my FSII had the pitot sticking right out of the front 

of the nosecone. A piece of aluminum tubing stuck out about 6" or so to 

get the end out of the sort of compressed area right in front of it.


	


Remember that it's not just the location of the pitot but also the location 

of the static pressure source.  When I bought my UltraStar, the pitot 

location was OK but the static was simply inside the instrument pod... when 

I moved my foot the indication would change a lot.



I ended up building a pitot/static tube with four radial holes on an outer 

concentric tube which solved that problem, but it's still not right.  Seems 

about right at low speeds, but it reads about 10mph slow at cruise (as near 

as I can tell by averaging GPS speed upwind and downwind).  Of course I 

have no idea if the instrument itself is accurate; one day I'll have to 

test it with a manometer.



-Dana

--

  If God took acid, would He see people?

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: Need advice on instruments

Ed D is using a venturi operated Winter ASI.   No pitot tube.>>

  

 Thanks John,

 I may look into that.  I used a Winter vario  on my glider years ago and it gave good service 

  

 Pat

  

  

   [quote][b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Need advice on instruments

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  

Remember that it's not just the location of the pitot but also the location 

of the static pressure source.  When I bought my UltraStar, the pitot 

location was OK but the static was simply inside the instrument pod... when 

I moved my foot the indication would change a lot.



I ended up building a pitot/static tube with four radial holes on an outer 

concentric tube which solved that problem, but it's still not right.  Seems 

about right at low speeds, but it reads about 10mph slow at cruise (as near 

as I can tell by averaging GPS speed upwind and downwind).  Of course I 

have no idea if the instrument itself is accurate; one day I'll have to 

test it with a manometer.



-Dana

--

  If God took acid, would He see people? 	




Er what static source..... ..... Good thing I didn't use it for much....



But yes you're quite right. I remember my wrist altimeter being off for similar reasons when I tried it in my titan. It was usually fairly close in my trike out in the wind tho....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

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