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Jabiru powered Kolbs

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:22 am Post subject: Jabiru powered Kolbs

For those few of you who are flying Kolbs with Jabiru engines, you may have already learned what I learned recently. If not then listen up for it is worth knowing.



Shortly after flying home with my NTM (new to me) Slinghsot with Jabiru 2200A engine, I stupidly left the master switch on over-night. Predictably, next time I went to fly, the battery had insufficient power to crank the engine. Fortunately, Luray the builder profided and easy to use battery jumper cable connection so I jump started it with my car.



After disconnecting the jumper cables the battery was still low but the alternator was charging it so I went ahead and taxied out toward the runway and did my pre-take-off checks turned on the landing lights and took off. During climb out  the EIS warning light came on and automatically switched to the voltage meter page which was blinking about 11.7V.  About the same time, the tach reading on the EIS went to zero but the engine was running fine. I completed the circuit and landed uneventfully.



Luray had installed a 15A fuse in the DC output circuit from the rectifier/regulator to the battery and it blew during high power climb with all electrical loads on. Luray had never had this happen during the nearly 5 years he had been flying the SS with Jabiru engine. 



Afterwards, I learned from the Jabiru Engines list that when the battery is low and the electrical load is high the current flow from the regulator is very high and apparently sufficient to blow a 15A fuse. I've never seen this before on any machine I've ever operated with a low battery. 



I replaced the 15A fuse with a 20A (per Jabiru installation manual), fully charged the battery and flew yesterday for a bit over an hour with no problems. The moral of this story is that you should not fly the Jabiru with high electrical loads when the battery is low. If you do and don't have circuit protection you might get a nasty surprise. If you do have a fuse in that circuit, make sure it is 20A per the Jabiru manual, which says that the fuse is optional. With this recent experience, I would consider a fuse in this circuit to be mandatory. I only have about 7 hours flying time with a Jabiru but it was a valuable experience worth relating to other Jabiru fliers. If I had known of this peculiarity before, I would not have flown until I had fully charged the battery.



Again, I've never seen this occurr on any other machine I've operated so it may be peculiar to the Jabiru alternator and rect/reg combination or something else entirely. Can't say for sure but you can bet I'll never ever leave the master switch on again of fly with the battery low again.

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs

If I was flying any airplane with a low battery, I would leave the landing and all other lights off until the battery was properly charged.   Chances are, if you had not had that large extra load of the landing light on, you would have never had a problem.



Landing and other lights are most definitely not required during takeoff in daylight, many Kolbs and other airplanes don't even have them.  I have no problem using a landing light to become more visible in daylight patterns, unless I have a low battery which needs to be charged, which then becomes much more important.  



Mike

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Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Kirkds

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Michigan

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs

Can the wire downstream from the fuse handle the 20 amps ok?

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs

The builder is a commercial electrician so I am assuming the wires were sized correctly.



If the wire was sized right, it will handle 20A since that is the size fuse Jabiru recommends. I didn't check to see what size of wire it is but I assume it is ok now since it is not subject to the conditions it experienced when the fuse blew. The most it was ever subjected to was about 15A because that was the size of fuse in it when I bought it and when it blew when the battery was low and all electrical loads were applied.



When the flying season tapers off I'll do a total load check and then know for certain its max current draw.

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Kirkds

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Michigan

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs

With a 20 amp fuse the wire should be 12 AWG minimum. Maybe its only 14 AWG is why he had a 15 amp fuse in it?

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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: Jabiru powered Kolbs

Thom, Getting a copy of Bob Nuckolls' book, "The Aeroelectric Connection" and joining his forum here on the Matronics Lists is money and time well spent. He's a great guy and real guru to those doing aircraft electrics. 



Rick



On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>

 

 The builder is a commercial electrician so I am assuming the wires were sized correctly.

 

 If the wire was sized right, it will handle 20A since that is the size fuse Jabiru recommends. I didn't check to see what size of wire it is but I assume it is ok now since it is not subject to the conditions it experienced when the fuse blew. The most it was ever subjected to was about 15A because that was the size of fuse in it when I bought it and when it blew when the battery was low and all electrical loads were applied.

  

 When the flying season tapers off I'll do a total load check and then know for certain its max current draw.

 

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo, NY

 Kolb Slingshot SS-021

 Jabiru 2200A #1574

 Tennessee Prop 64x34

 

 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.

   - John Gaule

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258050#258050

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs

Rick,



Thanks for the lead to the book and list. I'll check it out.

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs

 	  aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  

Thom, Getting a copy of Bob Nuckolls' book, "The Aeroelectric Connection" and joining his forum here on the Matronics Lists is money and time well spent. 

	




Thom knowing the load capability of his system would not have made any difference here, as one does not know how much an almost dead battery is going to draw.  



This incident was not about numbers, it was about the poor judgment of using a landing light during the day while trying to charge a dead battery...   No amount of numbers and aero electric books will save someone from this type of bad choice.



Mike

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Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs

Mr. Jet Pilot,



Please note that my original post was directed to those who operate Jabiru Powered Kolbs. I hope that those few of us who do operate Jabiru Powered Kolbs can avoid this situation in the future. THAT was the purpose of the post.



To quote you.... This incident was not about numbers, it was about the poor judgment of using a landing light during the day while trying to charge a dead battery...



Following is an excerpt of what I said in my initial post on this subject:

...you may have already learned what I learned recently. If not then listen up for it is worth knowing.... NOTE that this was directed to Jabiru operators who may not yet have had a dead battery.



Then I told about what I learned from my experience.



You can call that POOR JUDGMENT if you want. I call it learning by doing. NOW I have the knowledge acquired on THIS SYSTEM to know not to do that again on this system. If I do it again, it could be fairly called Poor Judgment or Stupidity or Bad Memory. 



Note that, as I said before, I've never had this happen on any other machine I've ever operated, either earthbound or airborne. Based on those many decades of past experience, what happened surprised me. I've experienced many dead battery situations in which a heavy electrical load was applied while the alternator or generator was supplying virtually all the power due to nearly dead battery and NEVER has this occurred in my experience, up until now.



In my opinion your post showed POOR TASTE, was JUDGMENTAL (there's that word again) and without foundation.



"That is all I have to say about that." - Forest Gump

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Thom Riddle
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