Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Fuel line

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

rob10(at)tlb.sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: Fuel line

Folding my wings yesterday on my Kitfox 4, I  realized the tygon tubing line used to vent the heather tank to the right wing  tank is very dry and I'm afraid it may crack.To avoid to make an order just for  that, I tought of using the bing 1/4 blue fuel line fro Aircraft Spruce to  replace it.(I have a lenth of that) Is this a good idea? Also, I want to replace  the rubber fuel lines. What is the best hoses to use for those? I think they are  5/16 lines.

 Thanks all

 Jack

 Kitfox 4- Rotax 912

   [quote][b]

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: Fuel line

At 09:55 AM 7/20/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I tought of using the bing 1/4 blue fuel line fro Aircraft Spruce to replace it.(I have a lenth of that) Is this a good idea? 	


 I've used it for three years with 100LL and it has retained its resiliency, but has discolored a bit.



  	  Quote: 	
		  Also, I want to replace the rubber fuel lines. What is the best hoses to use for those? I think they are 5/16 lines. 	


 I use the Aeroquip blue socketless hose. Again with 100LL only.



 

 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting    [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Vic Baker

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Carson City, Nevada

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: Fuel line

I used 1/4" Bing alcohol resistant fuel line - Blue - for  the vent line.  Aircraft Spruce.

  

 Recently changed out all the 5/16" mil 6000 kit supplied  fuel line for  SAE J30R9 fuel injection hose.   No, not  cheap,  more tolerant to ethanol contaminated  fuel.    Your local auto parts supplier will have.

  

  

          

 Vic Baker

S7 912S Warp

Carson City, Nv

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Vic Baker
Series 7
Carson City, Nevada

kitfoxsport(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: Fuel line

Just bought some more of the 5/ 16 'R9' blue inner liner for bio-fuel from Autozone for $3.99 a foot.

 

George

Sport Model - 914- almost, but not yet!

do not archive  



 

   From: Vic Baker <vr_baker(at)nvbell.net>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 10:34:15 AM

Subject: Re: Fuel line



   I used 1/4" Bing alcohol resistant fuel line - Blue - for the vent line.  Aircraft Spruce.

  

 Recently changed out all the 5/16" mil 6000 kit supplied fuel line for  SAE J30R9 fuel injection hose.   No, not cheap,  more tolerant to ethanol contaminated fuel.    Your local auto parts supplier will have.

  

  

          

 Vic Baker

S7 912S Warp

Carson City, Nv

 [quote] ---

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Fuel line

I replaced the tank to header mil-spec fuel hose with SAE J30R9 fuel injection hose last year on my speedster. I did NOT replace the smaller line from fuel pump to Tee to carbs on the 912. It looked so good ....and I did not the right size on hand. "Gonna do that later" I told myself.



Last month...the KitFox put me a foot for the first time. Had an off field landing due to extreme reduction in power...but not quite engine out..ran fine at idle or slightly above..but not enough to keep flying. This after aprox 30 minutes of flight at normal performance.

Anyway...found the smaller size fuel line (and still the original Mil-spec) from mechanical pump to carbs was swelled shut inside, or almost shut.

Felt pretty dumb.....



another queer thing...after I slit the mil-spec fuel line to examine the curious swelling inside, I threw it over on the bench and left it. The following day, a hanger neighbor came over and asked if I had discovered what was wrong..I say yea..look at that piece of line over there on the bench. He walked to the bench and examined it...I was busy working on the aircraft...and he said...so...what wrong with this?

I went over there and was going to show him and guess what...the swelling was gone and it looked as new...aside of the slit I had made in it!



I told him..well, believe it or not, yesterday this line was swelled shut inside with all kind little bumps and  baggy things and...!..He looked at me kinda funny and said..Oh yea?

This prompted me to stick a bolt in the end of the other intact piece from the other carb, and hang it in the vise and fill it with fuel..(93 octane alcohol free mo-gas). Yes, it had returned to normal also..after about 20 minutes..I looked over and the fuel was running out of the top and it was swelling shut inside.



Important point here..I have never had an alcohol in this plane, ever.I test it all the time....only straight mo gas and 100LL.

The different solvents and additives that are in mo-gas that are destructive to rubbers are not limited to alcohols. Congress has a great time re-formulating mo-gas yearly and Fuel component mfgs. are struggling to keep up with resistant products. Today..SAE J30 R9 spec hose is about as tough a product as you can get..and as resistant..although not conforming to the latest non-permeable requirement. It seems it takes a "tygothane" style line to comply with that...but I dont like them due to their fragility. I like thick walled..corded style automotive for its durability and puncture resistance and bend radius. USe you own judgement,,,but if your fuel lines are over a couple years old..replace the with the latest production and SAE spec you can find, regardless of their condition. If you are building...use steel or aluminum where ever you can.

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:52 am Post subject: Fuel line

Don,

  Thanks for your report on the fuel lines! I replaced mine with fuel injection lines about 6 months ago but now I will watch those even more  closely! I have a primer on my 912 and I was thinking that perhaps this could have been used to keep the engine running in the situation you described. This of course would depend on where the clog occurred. I also have the Northstar fuel flow gauge down stream of my primer. My thought was if that should cause a stoppage and I was fast enough I could keep the engine running with the primer. I have had to do this on one occasion with a production aircraft.

   Well, it is "curtains" for us in NW Florida. All of the gas stations have gone to gasohol except one. Many of the people at our field made a rush on the one remaining station (independent) and you would have thought we were having another hurricane!

   Just postponing the inevitable. I guess after reading all the discussions here I will use the gasohol (vs avgas) and keep a close watch on my tanks and lines.

                                                            Dick Maddux

                                                             Fox 4

                                                            Milton,Fl

 What's for dinner tonight?  Find quick and easy dinner ideas for any occasion.

  [quote][b]

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Fuel line

I tried to go flying last week, but the aircraft wasn't making full power.



After having some friends help me this weekend, we found the problem was a small 2" piece of black rubber hose used to connect the header tank to the metal line under the seat.  I had removed all of the black mil spec hose (or what I thought was all of it) when I purchased the plane because I had read the problems on this forum.  



I just had my tanks filled, but tested the fuel for alcohol and there isn't any in it.  So, something else about the new fuel mix caused the tube to swell.   Scary part is that the metal line and the nipple on the header tank must have been close enough to prevent it from swelling completely shut, because after 5 minutes we looked at the hose and you couldn't blow through it.  Had just enough of a trickle that you could run the engine at idle/taxi all you wanted, and about 30 seconds of full power in the float bowls.  Good result in the end, but just want to add another recommendation to get rid of ALL of the black rubber fuel hoses even if they do have a MIL number on them.

_________________
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:58 pm Post subject: Fuel line

MIL SPEC 6000 will do exactly what you have experienced under the right 

conditions.       Larry

---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject: Fuel line

Speaking of fuel line, I'm having a fuel smell in my cockpit (S5).  I've 

torn everything out trying to find a leak, but nothing anywhere including 

the sight gauges.  Not even a stain.  I had rubber fuel lines (not Milspec) 

from the wing tanks to the header and I noticed that they had a strong smell 

of fuel on them so I changed them out with Super Stock hoses from Earl's 

Performance.  These lines have a poly inner lining, rubber center lining, 

then outer silicone covering, yet the smell persists.  The one thing I 

haven't changed out is the 1/4 ID polyurethane vent line from the header to 

the right side wing tank.  I was recently told that in time they will give 

off a strong fuel odor (mine do) and that I should change them also.  Not a 

big deal to do and I plan on it, but I thought I'd check with the list to 

see if others experienced this problem and what they found was the culprit 

as I might be missing something.  I'm pretty sure it isn't the wing tanks as 

the smell doesn't seem to be emanating from that area.  All help 

appreciated.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 430+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



---

jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: Fuel line

Deke,

	Have you checked under the center console and up to the firewall. 



Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

Ph 208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com 

"The Sky is not the Limit...  It's a Playground" 





--

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: Fuel line

Yes, I did John.   Thanks for the suggestion.  However, I may pull it all 

apart again just to see if I missed something.  I'm baffled.

Deke



---

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: Fuel line

Please tell me what kind of fuel you are using.

  

 Clint

 

[quote] From: asq(at)roadrunner.com

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Fuel line

 Date: Mon C 17 Aug 2009 17:55:20 -0400

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq(at)roadrunner.com>

 

 MIL SPEC 6000 will do exactly what you have experienced under the right 

 conditions. Larry

 ---

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: Fuel line

Please tell me what the right conditions are so I can avoid them.

  

 Clint

 

[quote] From: asq(at)roadrunner.com

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Fuel line

 Date: Mon C 17 Aug 2009 17:55:20 -0400

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq(at)roadrunner.com>

 

 MIL SPEC 6000 will do exactly what you have experienced under the right 

 conditions. Larry

 ---

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: Fuel line

Hi Clint,

   I wish we knew. There were some instances years ago  on this list. Don Smythe had some info on it at that time. A friend here in W.NY  landed his Jabiru Kitfox in a field nearby from fuel stoppage. That was Mil Spec  6000. It was swollen completely shut. He gave it to me and I passed it on to  Don. He was using some kind of car gas,but so were all the rest of us.He  couldn't remember what brand. I soaked some pieces of MS6000 in 3 separate  jars of 100LL,alcohol,and auto gas. No negative effect. 

   I guess my answer is, I don't know what caused it.  I wish I did. I run 92 OCT in my Soob Kitfox and in my PA22-160  and I  ALWAYS test for alcohol. The 3pacer has MS6000 and it bothers me. I always get  my fuel from the same place,but who knows. 

  Wish I could be more  help.    Larry

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum