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912ULS Coolant

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Tommy Walker

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: 912ULS Coolant

Ro-Taxers,



I think most 912 owners in the U.S. use dex cool antifreeze in a 50/50 ratio in their cooling systems.



I have a gallon of Prestone 50/50 premix that states it can be mixed with any glycol type antifreeze.  



Is anyone using this brand and do you have any comments about using it?



Thanks,

Tommy Walker in Alabama



Do Not Archive

_________________
Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL

arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: 912ULS Coolant

I have a 912ULS that cost about $20,000.  Why would you take a chance.  Why 

not drain it and fill it up with a known antifreeze?  Seems like a more cost 

effective insurance.



Ken



do not archive



---

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: 912ULS Coolant

Hi Tommy,



Most any will work. Only so many ways to make antifreeze. Most that we come into contact with are either propylene or ethylene glycol although there are a few others. Any 50/50 will work. Needs to be silicate free. Some antifreeze's don't mix with DexCool. Make sure that if you use a DexCool antifreeze that you only put something back in that is Dex Cool compatible. Many Rotax engines do come with DexCool. If you need to just top off a low reserve tank then distilled water works best. If you are changing your coolant then flush out any old DexCool before putting something else back in.



Antifreeze is a substance added to a solvent, such as water, to lower its freezing point. Antifreeze is typically added to water in the cooling system of an internal-combustion engine so that it can be cooled below the freezing point of pure water (32 degrees F) without freezing. Ethylene glycol is the most widely used automotive cooling-system antifreeze, although methanol, ethanol, isopropyl alcohol, and propylene glycol are also used. In automotive windshield-washer fluids, an alcohol (e.g., methanol) is usually added to keep the mixture from freezing; it also acts as a solvent to help clean the glass. The brine used in some commercial refrigeration systems is an antifreeze mixture; it is typically a water solution of calcium chloride or propylene glycol. 



WHY, because



In particular, alkali metal silicates have been found excellent for protecting aluminum 

against corrosion. In glycol-based radiator protectants, however, they tend to form 

gels or even to precipitate, so creating a need for special silicate stabilizers. 



  Examples of constituents of such combinations of active substances include salts of 

organic acids which, especially in the form of their alkali metal salts, are efficient 

corrosion inhibitors, whereas the free acids are less effective or may even be corrosive. 

The incidence of free acids in radiator protectant formulations as a possible result, 

for example, of oxidation processes or the ingress of nitrous gases into the cooling 

system is therefore highly undesirable. It is for this reason that radiator protectant 

formulations contain small amounts of agents known as reserve alkalinity donors 

which have a buffer action in the relevant pH range and so prevent the formation 

of free acids. Examples of compounds employed as reserve alkalinity donors are 

amines and phosphates and, in particular, the less expensive borax. Such corrosion 

inhibitor compositions are described, for example, in EP-B-0 229 440 and 

EP-A-0 308 037. 



  Because of the above-described disadvantages associated with the use of silicates as 

corrosion inhibitors for aluminum, in recent developments a trend has been noted to 

omit them and instead use other active substances. Under these conditions, however, 

the reserve alkalinity donor, borax, is highly corrosive, and so can no longer be used. 

The use of phosphates in modern-day radiator protectant formulations is likewise 

undesirable. This applies to an even greater extent to amines, on the basis of their 

characterization as potential nitrosamine formers."

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: 912ULS Coolant

Hey Rog,

What does one of those nitrosamines look like?  I got to check my fluids.



Ken



do not archive



---

Tommy Walker

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: 912ULS Coolant

Ken,



Thanks for your reply.  I was under the impression that Prestone was the most popular anti-freeze in the U.S., but then, what do I know?



Tommy

Do Not Archive.



 	  arno7452(at)bellsouth.net wrote: 	
		  I have a 912ULS that cost about $20,000.  Why would you take a chance.  Why 

not drain it and fill it up with a known antifreeze?  Seems like a more cost 

effective insurance.



Ken



do not archive



---

_________________
Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL

goodings(at)yorku.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: 912ULS coolant

We have had only 50/50 Prestone in our 912ULS since October, 2003.  There 

have been no problems.  BUT use the orange variety (premium, or some 

such???), not the green variety.  An AME told us that there are a lot of 

"solids" (?) in the green type, which are not good for the engine.



John and Peter Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto

jay(at)horriblehyde.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: 912ULS Coolant

Perhaps you should ask my mates Mike and James what they used  



They are about to arrive at Oshkosh (this afternoon) after having flown from

Johannesburg in South Africa (left Saturday 18th June) and flew non-stop, 20

hours, to Sao Tome, just south of Nigeria; then to Guinea; then a giant hop,

22 hours flying non-stop across the Atlantic to Belem, Brazil; then to

Virgin Islands; then Florida and today en-route to Oshkosh.



They are flying a 2 seater, low winged, Light Sport, 912 engined aircraft

that they designed and built themselves, called the Sling.



When we filled the aircraft up we used whatever we could get at the nearest

service station as long as it was silicate free- we were working practically

around the clock against a deadline at a remote airfield, so no time to get

the exact right stuff...



If you read their logs (see

http://www.airplanefactory.co.za/world/default.asp) you'll see that some

very dodgy mogas was also used- even across the Atlantic



Jay



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Jay Hyde



HH Enterprises



Aircraft Manufacture, Engineering and Flying



jay(at)horriblehyde.com



Mobile phone: 083 300 8675 



International: +27 83 300 8675



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



--

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS Coolant

I have Evans coolant in my 912uls as per Rotax recommendation, unless they have changed. It's been in there for 150 hours and seems to perform well. I live in the desert South West where It is very hot! I have never had to add a drop since new.

Isn't anyone else using Evens coolant in their engines and if they are are, are they having any negative results?

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: 912ULS Coolant

Hi Ron,



It's been a while. When are you coming over for breakfast at Ryan? Evans is good, but in some cowling configurations it makes the temps too hot. Evans raises the temps any where from 25F-40F depending on your application. In my Ct it took the temps over max during the warmer months. I had no choice, but to go back to 50/50 or swap coolants out from summer to winter.

Rotax still allows 50/50 you are just supposed to use 248F as a max  water temp or you can use the CHT because they are not far off from each other. My oil temps where way to high, too. Evidently your Zenith has good cooling under the cowl. Fully exposed engines do well with Evans.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

C_Pickett

Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 3
Location: Rehoboth, MA

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:13 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS Coolant

There was a thing on the SeaRey site a while back that Evans is flammable.

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS Coolant

Evans can burn if brought to a high enough temp. If this gets to this temp then you probably have bigger problems to worry about. If you worry about Evans igniting then what are you going to do about your fuel and oil burning issue. Those are far worse. Even 50/50 will burn. You can and should have your oil, fuel and coolant lines in firesleeve. Usually if Evans burns it is already involved in a fire. There is a small chance if Evans where to hit a hot exhaust pipe in a small enough quantity then it might flame , but does not sustain a flame. IF it burst out all out once like splitting the line then it gets cooled below its ignition temp.

So can Evans burn, yes, but so does everything else under the cowling.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Ollie Washburn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Central Florida

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: 912ULS Coolant

 I have used Evans for over 500 hrs here in FL. and no problems. Also have never added any.



Ollie 



On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:22 PM, ronlee <rlee468(at)comcast.net (rlee468(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net (rlee468(at)comcast.net)>

  

 I have Evans coolant in my 912uls as per Rotax recommendation, unless they have changed. It's been in there for 150 hours and seems to perform well. I live in the desert South West where It is very hot! I have never had to add a drop since new.

  Isn't anyone else using Evens coolant in their engines and if they are are, are they having any negative results?

 

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 Ron Lee

 Tucson, Arizona

 

 

 

 

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Ollie RV6-A & Rans S7S
Central FL

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:31 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS Coolant

Evans is a good product, unfortunately it doesn't work well in all applications. Some of us just can't dump enough heat from under the cowling to keep temps down. Some have very good cooling and Evans would be a very good choice.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: 912ULS Coolant

Hi C_Pickett (C_Pickett(at)mac.com) " There was a thing on the SeaRey site a while back that Evans is flammable. [url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 58393#258393]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 58393#258393[/url]   "I did some testing with burning aeroplane liquids including Evans:http://contrails.free.fr/engine_burn_baby_burn_en.phpAs far as Evans I am going to use it in my 914 install, note though if you have a massave leak it won't be too much of a concern, but a small shooting pinpoint leak aimed at the exhaust will create a pretty impressive continuous fire that a 50/50 leak probably will not.Ron ParigorisOne other interesting fact is shooting oil on hot exhaust will catch fire at a lower temperature than 100LL!   [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: 912ULS Coolant

Hi Guys,



Here is some useful info on Evans and 100LL.

I'm a retired HazMat Fire Captain of 28 yeas so the MSDS sheets have been a way of life.



Evans: (boiling point 370F)              

Flash point  225F                          

auto ignition 1054F                         

Flammable limits 2.6 to 12.5%        

100LL:

Flash point  -51F

Auto ignition  840F

Flammable limits  1.2 to 7%

I'll take Evans over 100LL.

There are way too many things that burn well and ignite well under the cowl to worry specifically about Evans. How many do a total rubber hose and rubber mount replacement every 5 years?

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

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