Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Wing Tip Failure?

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: Wing Tip Failure?

At 08:38 AM 8/31/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

..........................
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  The Kolb Factory even saw the importance of wingtips and put a new wingtip 

on the MK III Xtra.   The current design Kolb wingtip sucks, they are prone 
	


to breaking over time when built to plans, and are aerodynamically a waste. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

.........................
	




Kolbers,



Just wondered, has anyone ever had a wing tip fail from normal flight 

conditions, as opposed to striking the ground, etc?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Wing Tip Failure?

There are plenty of reports here on the list of wingtips breaking.  Not a catastrophic failure, but parts of them fatiguing and some of the thin supporting tubes breaking over time.  The structure was probably more suited to the Firefly, and the ultrastar.  Built stock, its definitely too weak a design for a MK III.  



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Jimmy Young

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: Re:Re: Wing Tip Failure?

>>There are plenty of reports here on the list of wingtips breaking.<<



Mike,



I've only been reading the Kolb list for about 2 1/2 years. I've never heard of a Kolb wingtip breaking or failing, except when they hit the ground. So, after reading your post I searched the archives for "wingtip failure", "wing tip failure", and "wingtip breaking", and did not find any posts showing a wingtip failure. It may be I am searching for the wrong key words. Where can I find the reports you mention on this topic? 



Jimmy Y

_________________
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: Wing Tip Failure?

At 12:42 PM 8/31/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



There are plenty of reports here on the list of wingtips breaking.  Not a 

catastrophic failure, but parts of them fatiguing and some of the thin 
	


supporting tubes breaking over time.  The structure was probably more suited 

to the Firefly, and the ultrastar.  Built stock, its definitely too weak a 

design for a MK III.  

 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


Mike,



I searched the archives using the following word combinations:



damaged wingtip

damaged wing tip

wingtip failure

wing tip failure

broken wingtip

broken wing tip 

broken brace



The last two items produced hits.  "Broken wing tip" produced two hits but 

they did not relate to a specific instance of a failure.  "Broken brace" 

produced one hit where a failure was discovered after the wing tip had been 

run into a fence.



May be I am using the wrong word combinations.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: Wing Tip Failure?

Been on this list since 1995 and cant remember any but I have a little memory loss due to my brain bleed after the crash.  Chris

 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly  



 

   From: Jimmy Young <jdy100(at)comcast.net>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:52:03 PM

Subject: Re: Wing Tip Failure?



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net (jdy100(at)comcast.net)>



 	  Quote: 	
		  >There are plenty of reports here on the list of wingtips breaking.


	


--------

Jimmy Young

FS II, HKS 700

N7043P





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260674#260674

[b]

         [quote][b]

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: Wing Tip Failure?

Jack ,I dont think you missed many word combos . thank you for the backing evidence. Chris

 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly 



 

   From: Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 6:49:34 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Wing Tip Failure?



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>



At 12:42 PM 8/31/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)>



There are plenty of reports here on the list of wingtips breaking.  Not a 

catastrophic failure, but parts of them fatiguing and some of the thin 
	


supporting tubes breaking over  time.  The structure was probably more suited 

to the Firefly, and the ultrastar.  Built stock, its definitely too weak a 

design for a MK III.  

 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


Mike,



I searched the archives using the following word combinations:



damaged wingtip

damaged wing tip

wingtip failure

wing tip failure

broken wingtip

broken wing tip 

broken brace



The last two items produced hits.  "Broken wing tip" produced two hits but 

they did not relate to a specific instance of a failure.  "Broken brace" 

produced one hit where a failure was discovered after the wing tip had been 

run into a fence.



May be I am using the wrong word combinations.



Jack B. Hart FF004

W= Use the Matronics List Features ;                 -Matt Dralle, Lis



         [quote][b]

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: Wing Tip Failure?

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED  

 

  

Jack B. Hart asked: << has anyone ever had a wing tip fail from normal flight   

conditions, as opposed to striking the ground, etc? >>  

   

   

Jack, and Kolb Friends –  

   

My experience has shown that the Mark-3 wingtips are pretty stout, even if not the most aerodynamically efficient.  

   

Three summers ago, I ground-looped my Kolb while taking off in a crosswind.  A strong gust hit me just as the tailwheel came off the ground, and with insufficient speed for rudder effectiveness, my plane nosed into the wind, dragging the wingtip on the runway.  

   

(Not one of my prouder moments of flying my Kolb - Ranks right up there with landing on a muddy salt flat!)  

   

I removed the fabric from the wingtip to inspect the structure inside.  All was OK, thankfully.  Replaced the fabric on the wingtip, and have been flying without problems since.  

   

Dennis Kirby  

Happy that my abused Mark-III continues to serve me well, in  

Cedar Crest, NM  

Do not archive  

   

      

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED   

 

  [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Wing Tip Failure?

Here are a couple reported cases...  Only took me a few minutes to search and find this.  I could probably find more, but this will help those that are interested in this subject will get the idea.

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=39942

Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: Wing Tip Failure?

Mike B C (notice the "B" C since there are several Mikes!!)

  

   I agree with you C and in adding to your point about "wingtip breakage" C I would also add that because the 5/16" and reinforcing tubes are pop-riveted C this is one of the main reasons why they break.

  

   In the numerous times I've had to move my MkIII C and hangar rash C in general C I've had a couple of the 5/16" tubes break at the pop-rivet drill hole (on one flap and the elevator).  Fortunately C these breaks were prior to covering!!  



   When possible C I used the sheet metal tab/pop-rivet method (giving me about 4 rivets) C to fasten some of the 5/16" tubes C rather than rely on just one 1/8" rivet. 

   Now that my Poly Fiber covering and paint are finished C I wouldn't imagine the fastening points are as sensitive C since they don't flex very much.

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

  

  

  

  

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Wing Tip Failure?

 From: orcabonita(at)hotmail.com

 Date: Tue C 1 Sep 2009 10:00:29 -0700

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>

 

 Here are a couple reported cases... Only took me a few minutes to search and find this. I could probably find more C but this will help those that are interested in this subject will get the idea.

 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=39942

 

 

 Mike

 

 --------

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

 

 Kolb MK-III Xtra C 912-S

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260840#260840

 

 

 

 

 

&gt==============
	


[quote] 

 

 

Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.  Try it now.   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject: Wing Tip Failure?

 	  Quote: 	
		   Here are a couple reported cases...  Only took me a few minutes to search 

 and find this.  I could probably find more, but this will help those that 

 are interested in this subject will get the idea.

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=39942

 Mike


	


Mike B/Gang:



The referenced brace that broke, in my opinion, is not structural.



Its primary function is to keep from pulling the bow tip aft during 

shrinking of the fabric.



Dennis S can correct me if I am wrong.



Without this tube, the bow tip is not any weaker.



That is not a wing tip/bow tip failure.



john h

mkIII

Marion, IL

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum