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turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

Tony C

  

   When I was working on my plane last year C I needed some turnbuckles C too.  I found an outfit that sells "brand new surplus" turnbuckles for about $7.50 each C for the complete assembly C instead of $30 from Aircraft Spruce.

  

   I order plenty of stuff from Aircraft Spruce C but these turnbuckles are the exact same items at 1/4th the cost.  They are genuine aircraft hardware C identical to the ones that came with my MkIII kit.

  

   I also ordered some other items from these folks C like pulleys C and AN nuts & bolts.   I tried finding them online C and I THINK this is them.

  

 http://www.preferredairparts.com/hardware.htm

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more.  [quote][b]

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

Somebody got a quote from this place today...



 I paid $160 for 8 Turnbarrels... at ACS



 The place your saying that's cheaper , wanted $207 for the same thing

.

.

Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN

.

Alternative Kolb List - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kolbaircraft/

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

I said "I think that's them"  



 



[quote]>I also ordered some other items from these folks C like pulleys C and AN nuts & bolts.   I tried >>finding them online C and I THINK this is them

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

Ahhhh,

            Well it still looks like a good "Link" to add to the 

other Kolb site... We're looking for alternative "anything"

.

.

Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN

.

Kolb site - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kolbaircraft/

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Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

At 07:17 PM 9/1/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com>



 Somebody got a quote from this place today...



  I paid $160 for 8 Turnbarrels... at ACS



  The place your saying that's cheaper , wanted $207 for the same thing

 .

 .

 Gotta Fly...

 Mike & "Jaz" in MN 	




 

   I had all my cables swaged this way ( elevator, rudder and tail wires)

  by a guy near Aircraft Spruce in Griffin Ga.

  He supplies the cables and fittings.

  done with a rotary swaging tool



  Did not cost as much as you think and looks real clean.

  He does need to know the length from "hole to hole" on the attachment

  points and they are only adjustable about an inch before you'll have to

  start twisting the cables again. There is only a turnbuckle "pressed on" on one end.

  I'm sure there are people like him all over the country.

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_________________
Possum

Jimmy Young

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:25 am Post subject: Re:Re: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

Possums writes: 



 	  Quote: 	
		  I had all my cables swaged this way ( elevator, rudder and tail wires) by a guy near Aircraft Spruce in Griffin Ga. He supplies the cables and fittings. done with a rotary swaging tool 	




Possums,



I like the added safety factor of your dual-bracing set up.  Could you please take a close up pic of the cable ends on both the fork and turnbuckle sides and post it?  



Thanks -

_________________
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:47 am Post subject: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

35 years of flying cable braced aircraft and I've never put a turnbuckle in a structural cable. Cheapest turnbuckle cost then, $0. No multi hole tangs, either. Those things went out with the standard Rogallo in '76. Make your cables per the Kolb plans and you'll be just fine. Extra cables are extra weight, not extra safety. My 2 cents, ya'll do what you choose, it's your experiment. 



Rick Girard

do not archive



On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Jimmy Young <jdy100(at)comcast.net (jdy100(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net (jdy100(at)comcast.net)>

  

 Possums writes:

 

 

 > I had all my cables swaged this way ( elevator, rudder and tail wires) by a guy near Aircraft Spruce in Griffin Ga. He supplies the cables and fittings. done with a rotary swaging tool

 

 

 Possums,

 

 I like the added safety factor of your dual-bracing set up.  Could you please take a close up pic of the cable ends on both the fork and turnbuckle sides and post it?

 

 Thanks -

 

 --------

 Jimmy Young

 FS II, HKS 700

 N7043P

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261172#261172

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: Re: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

 	  aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  



No multi hole tangs, either. Those things went out with the standard Rogallo in '76. Make your cables per the Kolb plans and you'll be just fine. Extra cables are extra weight, not extra safety. 



Rick Girard



	




Rick,



My cables were made per Kolb plans, and they came with multi hole tangs.  You contradict yourself...  Your claim about extra cables no providing extra safety is just plain wrong and dangerous advice.  Almost every airplane in the world that uses wire braced tails uses two sets of wires, there is a good reason for this.  Given Jimmy Youngs recent picture, I am surprised to see a statement like yours from anyone.   Had that tang let go, an extra set of tail bracing wires would have prevented a crash and almost certain death.  



You recently very wrongly posted that we could not tell if properly designed wingtips would improve the flying characteristics of a Kolb, and that it is not worth doing.   Now you post advice that is downright dangerous and false.   If people do not want to improve the safety of their Kolbs by adding an extra set of tail wires, that is their choice.  But you should not be making dangerous and materially false statements that will prevent people that want to make their make their Kolbs as safe as possible from doing so.    You recently complained about my posts not being " Nice " while you post false information here that could get someone killed...   



Given the picture below, and many documented cases of tang, swage, and wire failures in aviation history, Possums extra set of tail wires are a great idea, and a great safety improvement to his Kolb at a very minimal weight. 



Mike

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_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: Re: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

.

.

The Turnbarrels I bought weren't for my Kolb, They were for the

cross bracing cables in the Wings of my Wittman Buttercup



Attached to the Compression strut in the Middle and crossing to the

root end and to the wing tips...



 .

My cables on my Kolb are Swagged...

Only turnbuckles are on my Rudder cables and Elevator...

.

.

Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN

Kolb list- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kolbaircraft/

.

.

..

PS the reason the "tang" let loose... Has to be from over tightening the

turnbarrel....  If it's done to print... your not gonna get it THAT tight...

Sometimes... people only THINK they are improving something...

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zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

Mike, 

 You really need to take a course in "How to disagree with someone".Your usual openers,Only a moron,or only an idiot,keep you from being the most regarded person on the list.Personally attacking the intelligence,intentions,or opinions of others is another one.You'll never build yourself up by tearing everyone else down.Just a thought,no offense.....

   G.Aman

 

   

 

 --

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

MikeIMHO, Gary's got it really right, in spades. 

I agree completely.Why don't you lighten up? Quit insulting everyone? Try it.

Russ K

do not archive

On Sep 3, 2009, at 6:45 PM, zeprep251(at)aol.com (zeprep251(at)aol.com) wrote:

[quote] Mike, 

 You really need to take a course in "How to disagree with someone".Your usual openers,Only a moron,or only an idiot,keep you from being the most regarded person on the list.Personally attacking the intelligence,intentions,or opinions of others is another one.You'll never build yourself up by tearing everyone else down.Just a thought,no offense.....

   G.Aman

 

  

 

 --

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

At 06:45 PM 9/3/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Mike, 

 You really need to take a course in "How to disagree with someone".Your usual openers,Only a moron,or only an idiot,keep you from being the most regarded person on the list.Personally attacking the intelligence,intentions,or opinions of others is another one.You'll never build yourself up by tearing everyone else down.Just a thought,no offense.....

   G.Aman



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com) >

  Almost every airplane in the world 



 that uses wire braced tails uses two sets of wires, there is a good reason for 



 this. 	


 Yeah - you "moron's and idiots"  would need to build the tail different from the start

 to have the two sets of tail wires anyway.



 It's really not something you could go back & change. Gotta have the "sleeves" inside the

 tubes where the bolts go thru (that are attached to the tangs) before you rivet the ribs, etc. 



 Anyway, I was just suggesting a different way to build the wires on the tail, not so much the tail 

 itself. It's pretty much standard aircraft stuff. I think the 8 tail wires cost about $25 each.

 Not cheap, but affordable & nice and clean. You couldn't break them in a Kolb ......or a Pitts.

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_________________
Possum

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

 	  Possums wrote: 	
		  



Yeah - you "moron's and idiots"  would need to build the tail different from the start

 to have the two sets of tail wires anyway.

. 	




I thought about taking my tail apart to get the sleeves in, but decided that was going to take way to much work, might as well build a new tail.  For those that don't like the idea of their tangs breaking as in the picture below, there is a solution.  Given the importance of this subject, I will start a new thread on it.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

At 10:14 PM 9/3/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 > Yeah - you "moron's and idiots"  would need to build the tail 

 different from the start

 >  to have the two sets of tail wires anyway.

 > .

I thought about taking my tail apart to get the sleeves in, but 

decided that was going to take way to much work, might as well build 

a new tail.



Mike



--------


	


I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't have done it - if I hadn't had to do a 

total rebuild anyway.

The old Firestar was fine the way it was - but it's nice to add all 

the little things

you would like to have after you've been in the old one for years. "4 

inch wider

cockpit is nice, a 505 dual carb, a 3 blade warp, different wing 

tips, VG's, custom wires,

...........but I still got my old nose cone & stick & same ribs 

(just 8 instead of 5) per

wing.  I still miss the good times in my old 447 sometimes. But the 

new one is better.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXVPO53BHrc

_________________
Possum

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: turnbuckles and aircraft hardware

>Possums,



  >Could you please take

  >a close up pic of the cable ends on both the fork and turnbuckle sides and

  >post it?  



  >Thanks -



  >Jimmy Young

  >FS II, HKS 700



  --------------------------------------------------------------

 

 I just use 1/2 turnbuckle on the tail wires, whole turnbuckle

 on the elevator or rudder (if you want) or 1/2 on each end if

 you want - they will make them for you. Got to give 

 them the measurements "hole to hole". And it's

 nice an clean. Aircraftspruce isn't the cheapest, lot's of

 aircraft fabricators have a swaging machine. 

 The pictures are a little big - sorry , but I assume you want 

 to inspect them close up?



  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10137.pdf

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_________________
Possum

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