jeff(at)westcottpress.com
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 Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: Window Write Up Repost |
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In response to a number of requests, I am reposting my window write up
with some photographs and additional information
As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
the Weld-on bead. In the picture below, the whiter area is where the
window did not bond:
This edge, though not perfect, is more like what the bond should look
like:
My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
worth sharing.
Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
Plastics in Ohio (937-669-2677). Jeff spent a good deal of time with
me on the phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might
work and suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As
we discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that
what we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to
the dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought
that could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
certain.
With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
Vans for another window. Here's what the door looked like after the
window was routed out (but before I sanded it clean):
I also made a call to tech support at IPS (877-202-0858 ext 3304),
the makers of Weld-on 10, hoping to find another product that would
stay open longer. Here's what I learned:
Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
application
At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
Pot life will increase as temperature decreases. Though I have asked
the question, to date, they have been unable to give me a temperature
below which the product should not be used
They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
$400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
called Weld-on 811.
I'm attaching the product bulletin for Weld-on 10. One rather
tempting note they make is that you can apply Resin A to one surface
and Resin B to the other to eliminate pot life issues all together...
but you do wind up with an unspecified reduction in the strength of
the bond.
I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
of this year.
I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey. I
did get a suggestion off line from Mike Andresen that I mix the Weld-
on 10 in a zip lock bag, clip the corner and spread it that way. I
believe that is the route I'll take when I try this again.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
one step forward... two steps back
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