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Drain holes in wings

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occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:14 am Post subject: Drain holes in wings

I have just finished melting holes in my newly  covered wings. Outboard of each rib at the trailing edge and at the bottom of  the rudder. They look like the ultimate invitation to nasty flying bugs looking  to build nests to me. Does everyone have these holes? I need them with the  moisture here in the Maritimes Should I use the little hoods?   Am I concerned for no cause? 

  

 Dave Goddard

KF IV 1050 / 582 /  Warp

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MDKitfox(at)aol.com
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: Drain holes in wings

Dave, 



I wouldn't be too concerned about the bugs getting in, you can look for that on your preflight.  I would recommend you protect the hole with either the seaplane grommets (little hoods as you say) or plain ones, it's your choice.  I used the seaplane grommets just in case I decide to put my plane on floats.  The grommets are used only to protect your fabric.  The holes allow moisture to drain from inside the structure and everyone should have them.  BTW, they are easy to put on.



 Rick Weiss

N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS

SkyStar S/N 1

Port Orange, FL





 



On Sep 12, 2009, at 10:58 AM, Dave G wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have just finished melting holes in my newly covered wings. Outboard of each rib at the trailing edge and at the bottom of the rudder. They look like the ultimate invitation to nasty flying bugs looking to build nests to me. Does everyone have these holes? I need them with the moisture here in the Maritimes Should I use the little hoods?  Am I concerned for no cause?

 

Dave Goddard

KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp<IMG_0999.JPG>



	




=  [quote][b]

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: Drain holes in wings

Thanks Richard. I'll glue the hoods on. It was a  poor picture but for those who care that is my first attempt at finish using  Stewarts System water borne urethane paint. The whole system is very easy to  use, has a fairly easy learning curve and is non toxic (mostly) and non  flammable. I cannot tolerate the fumes from MEK at all, so a real boon for me.  The Stewarts people are also top notch at customer support. 

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: Drain holes in wings

The hoods will also mask the fact that you should have burned the  

holes BEFORE the application of the color coat. I believe that  

admonition is covered in the Poly-Fiber manual. Doesn't the Stewarts  

System tell you that? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but somebody  

had to.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 765.7 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~234 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 12, 2009, at 2:51 PM, Dave G wrote:



[quote] Thanks Richard. I'll glue the hoods on. It was a poor picture but  

 for those who care that is my first attempt at finish using  

 Stewarts System water borne urethane paint. The whole system is  

 very easy to use, has a fairly easy learning curve and is non toxic  

 (mostly) and non flammable. I cannot tolerate the fumes from MEK at  

 all, so a real boon for me. The Stewarts people are also top notch  

 at customer support.

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: Drain holes in wings

Did somebody really have to? No problem, it's one of those things I figure 

can be done when it's convenient, if that turns out to cause a problem, then 

I was wrong, wouldn't be the first time. The Stewarts system does not 

mention drain holes at all, and I have not seen them use any in the videos.



---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Drain holes in wings

Dave,



 Too late for seaplane grommets now if you already painted.  Make sure you got drain holes in flapperons as well at elevator and bottom of fuselage at rear.  If and when water gets in you certainly want it out.  I would not worry about bugs much.

_________________
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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Drain holes in wings

not quite.. I put mine on (sea plane grommets) after the paint.  A little Plast-i-zap and some paint and you would never know the difference.  So far, they are holding on just fine.

_________________
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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: Drain holes in wings

When I said "somebody had to" (mention that the drain holes should  

have been burned into the fabric...preferably during the Poly Spray  

stage of the Poly Fiber process), it was to let you and *others* know  

that by doing so, the burned edges of the holes can still be sanded,  

THEN painted and thereby prevent the burned look the the pictured  

holes display. The goal of this List is to let each other know the  

proper way to perform certain tasks, and that way we all learn. I  

used the Poly Fiber system, and they teach...I believe in their  

manual...that the holes be burned at the Poly Spray stage....the  

sanding stage, so that the final color will cover the burned and  

sanded area, even IF no sanding is done. My comment was not to  

degrade your work, but to let you and others, who may still be  

building/learning, the proper procedure for burning the drain holes.  

If you took exception to my remark, I apologize, but it was done for  

the "greater good" as the popular phrase these days goes. As to  

adding the so-called "seaplane drains" (I think they are called),  

yes, they can be added after the paint, as they are clear, at least  

the ones I've seen, and won't really detract from the finished  

appearance of the job. And it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong  

either. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 765.7 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~234 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 12, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Dave G wrote:



[quote] 



 Did somebody really have to? No problem, it's one of those things I  

 figure can be done when it's convenient, if that turns out to cause  

 a problem, then I was wrong, wouldn't be the first time. The  

 Stewarts system does not mention drain holes at all, and I have not  

 seen them use any in the videos.



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: Drain holes in wings

Thanks Dave. I hope the bugs (wasps in my case) don't find them. I've found 

over the years that wasps LOVE small holes leading to open areas. Hopefully 

it won't be an issue.

---

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:44 am Post subject: Drain holes in wings

I was largely of the same opinion. I'll scuff up a small circle and glue 

them on, they're very cheap and light and if one falls off from time to time 

it won't hurt anything.



---

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:07 am Post subject: Drain holes in wings

Hi Lynn, no worries about my taking the criticism badly, I simply assumed 

you were tossing a little light hearted ribbing along with "best advice", 

absolutely no harm done and I appreciate you looking out for people. I've 

never seen you shoot across anyone's bow and would afford you the benefit of 

any doubt regardless.



I gave this a little thought before failing to put them in and figured it 

would not matter if I waited. I know you are absolutely right about the 

timing, everyone does it that way, but the manual is not clear about it. The 

reference to it in my Polyfiber manual (ver 20) is on page 51 where they 

don't really state when except that if you're using dollar patches you would 

have to do it when taping obviously. There's also a small reference on page 

64 listing things not to forget before spraying. So I came away with the 

opinion that as long as reinforvent is appropraiate they could be put in 

anytime and as required. Perhaps a later manual is absolutely specific about 

timing but mine was somewhat ambiguous so I ignored it until it was 

convenient for me. I am absolutely defying their requirement for size 

though, mine are slightly smaller than the required 1/4".



---

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:11 am Post subject: Drain holes in wings

That should be "reinforcement is appropriate" I should turn that spell 

checker back on sometime.



---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: Drain holes in wings

Hi Dave-

I just recalled another gem of wisdom, and I don't recall of the  

manual says this or not, but use a metal washer laid on the surface,  

and that will control the diameter of the hole, as well as keeping  

the flow of molten fabric from coming up. The washer will kinda force  

the melt downwards. I also can't recall where I read or heard about  

it....maybe it was from Jim Miller of Poly-Fiber in Columbus,  

Ohio...but he said that the holes didn't really need reinforcing  

doilies, because you are *probably* going through 3 layers of fabric  

already at the  point where the drains go. And he also said that the  

plain washer-like reinforcing grommets weren't necessary for the same  

reason.



Speaking of when to do the burning of the holes. when I got my  

partially finished plane, the drain holes had been burned into the  

TOP of the horizontal stab. So I had to patch those up (with  

rectangular patches, according to Jim Miller, so that they wouldn't  

be so obvious), and burn holes into the bottoms. I thought I was just  

about to start spraying color when the light bulb came on and I  

remembered to burn the holes...AND i damn near burned them in the TOP  

surface again!  Sometimes the old brain just needs a wake-up call.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 767.2 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~233 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Sep 13, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Dave G wrote:



[quote] 



 Hi Lynn, no worries about my taking the criticism badly, I simply  

 assumed you were tossing a little light hearted ribbing along with  

 "best advice", absolutely no harm done and I appreciate you looking  

 out for people. I've never seen you shoot across anyone's bow and  

 would afford you the benefit of any doubt regardless.



 I gave this a little thought before failing to put them in and  

 figured it would not matter if I waited. I know you are absolutely  

 right about the timing, everyone does it that way, but the manual  

 is not clear about it. The reference to it in my Polyfiber manual  

 (ver 20) is on page 51 where they don't really state when except  

 that if you're using dollar patches you would have to do it when  

 taping obviously. There's also a small reference on page 64 listing  

 things not to forget before spraying. So I came away with the  

 opinion that as long as reinforvent is appropraiate they could be  

 put in anytime and as required. Perhaps a later manual is  

 absolutely specific about timing but mine was somewhat ambiguous so  

 I ignored it until it was convenient for me. I am absolutely  

 defying their requirement for size though, mine are slightly  

 smaller than the required 1/4".



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: Drain holes in wings

They make thin aluminum washers for that purpose.  Just polytak them and use sharp exacto knife to cut out fabric in center.  Very nice looking and very easy.

  

 Clint

 

[quote] From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Drain holes in wings

 Date: Sun C 13 Sep 2009 13:54:28 -0400

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Hi Dave-

 I just recalled another gem of wisdom C and I don't recall of the 

 manual says this or not C but use a metal washer laid on the surface C 

 and that will control the diameter of the hole C as well as keeping 

 the flow of molten fabric from coming up. The washer will kinda force 

 the melt downwards. I also can't recall where I read or heard about 

 it...maybe it was from Jim Miller of Poly-Fiber in Columbus C 

 Ohio..but he said that the holes didn't really need reinforcing 

 doilies C because you are *probably* going through 3 layers of fabric 

 already at the point where the drains go. And he also said that the 

 plain washer-like reinforcing grommets weren't necessary for the same 

 reason.

 

 Speaking of when to do the burning of the holes. when I got my 

 partially finished plane C the drain holes had been burned into the 

 TOP of the horizontal stab. So I had to patch those up (with 

 rectangular patches C according to Jim Miller C so that they wouldn't 

 be so obvious) C and burn holes into the bottoms. I thought I was just 

 about to start spraying color when the light bulb came on and I 

 remembered to burn the holes...AND i damn near burned them in the TOP 

 surface again! Sometimes the old brain just needs a wake-up call.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 767.2 hrs

 Countdown to 1000 hrs~233 to go

 Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: flying

 

 

 

 

 

 

 On Sep 13 C 2009 C at 9:02 AM C Dave G wrote:

 

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G" <occom(at)ns.sympatico.ca>

 >

 > Hi Lynn C no worries about my taking the criticism badly C I simply 

 > assumed you were tossing a little light hearted ribbing along with 

 > "best advice" C absolutely no harm done and I appreciate you looking 

 > out for people. I've never seen you shoot across anyone's bow and 

 > would afford you the benefit of any doubt regardless.

 >

 > I gave this a little thought before failing to put them in and 

 > figured it would not matter if I waited. I know you are absolutely 

 > right about the timing C everyone does it that way C but the manual 

 > is not clear about it. The reference to it in my Polyfiber manual 

 > (ver 20) is on page 51 where they don't really state when except 

 > that if you're using dollar patches you would have to do it when 

 > taping obviously. There's also a small reference on page 64 listing 

 > things not to forget before spraying. So I came away with the 

 > opinion that as long as reinforvent is appropraiate they could be 

 > put in anytime and as required. Perhaps a later manual is 

 > absolutely specific about timing but mine was somewhat ambiguous so 

 > I ignored it until it was convenient for me. I am absolutely 

 > defying their requirement for size though C mine are slightly 

 > smaller than the required 1/4".

 >

 > ---

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