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Michael Wynn
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA
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 Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: Grounding Lug |
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Hi all,
I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning to ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly adjacent. I checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no closer than 1/2 inch apart is fine structurally.
I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that off and buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th aluminum with a 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully polished up. The question is, is it okay to just rivet these two pieces of aluminum together or is there something I should sandwich in between them to improve the connection? Does the bond need to be sealed with dielectric grease or some such? What have others done in this situation?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
[quote][b]
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Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA |
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aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:39 am Post subject: Grounding Lug |
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HI Mike-
I have a similar configuration and used a similar solution. I acquired a tube of goo used to protect aluminum electrical connections from corrosion and and applied it to the joint area. I'm on the road at the moment, so I can't access the brand, but IIRC I got it off the shelf at a local home improvement center. Actually, I'd bet just about anything it was GB, or G&B, whatever the big name brand is for electrical accessories.
FWIW-
| Quote: |
Time: 10:56:21 PM PST US
From: MLWynn(at)aol.com
Subject: Grounding Lug
Hi all,
I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning to
ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly adjacent. I
checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no closer than 1/2 inch
apart is fine structurally.
I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that off and
buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th aluminum with
a 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully polished up. The
question is, is it okay to just rivet these two pieces of aluminum together or
is there something I should sandwich in between them to improve the
connection? Does the bond need to be sealed with dielectric grease or some such?
What have others done in this situation?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
|
Glen Matejcek
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: Grounding Lug |
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At 12:40 AM 9/13/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all,
I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning to ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly adjacent. I checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no closer than 1/2 inch apart is fine structurally.
I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that off and buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th aluminum with a 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully polished up. The question is, is it okay to just rivet these two pieces of aluminum together or is there something I should sandwich in between them to improve the connection? Does the bond need to be sealed with dielectric grease or some such? What have others done in this situation? |
The goals for achieving gas-tightness of
the conducting materials are the same for
your ground lug as for putting terminals on
a piece of wire.
Don't take the corrosion proofing off your
nutplate . . . or other hardware. In fact,
there's no need to scuff the facing aluminum
parts, just get them clean.
Screws would be better than rivets. Rivets
are SHEAR fasteners and what you're trying
to achieve is a intimate contact between two
pieces of metal with TENSION fasteners.
4 - 5 stainless steel, 6-32 screws torqued
to values recommended by the manufacturer
(or AC43-13) would be better. A light coat
of silicone grease between faying surfaces
of the aluminum would be good too.
Having said all that, know that a whole
lot of folks have installed ground lugs
thusly . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg
. . . and they're probably gong to be just
fine.
Bob . . . [quote][b]
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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: Grounding Lug |
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You can also alodine the parts before riveting / bolting.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote] At 12:40 AM 9/13/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all,
I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning to ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly adjacent. I checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no closer than 1/2 inch apart is fine structurally.
I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that off and buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th aluminum with a 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully polished up. The question is, is it okay to just rivet these two pieces of aluminum together or is there something I should sandwich in between them to improve the connection? Does the bond need to be sealed with dielectric grease or some such? What have others done in this situation? |
The goals for achieving gas-tightness of
the conducting materials are the same for
your ground lug as for putting terminals on
a piece of wire.
Don't take the corrosion proofing off your
nutplate . . . or other hardware. In fact,
there's no need to scuff the facing aluminum
parts, just get them clean.
Screws would be better than rivets. Rivets
are SHEAR fasteners and what you're trying
to achieve is a intimate contact between two
pieces of metal with TENSION fasteners.
4 - 5 stainless steel, 6-32 screws torqued
to values recommended by the manufacturer
(or AC43-13) would be better. A light coat
of silicone grease between faying surfaces
of the aluminum would be good too.
Having said all that, know that a whole
lot of folks have installed ground lugs
thusly . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg
. . . and they're probably gong to be just
fine.
Bob . . . | Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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Michael Wynn
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: Grounding Lug |
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I have used conversion coating before priming for much of the substructure. This conducts well?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 9/14/2009 3:49:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | You can also alodine the parts before riveting / bolting.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:40 AM 9/13/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all,
I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning to ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly adjacent. I checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no closer than 1/2 inch apart is fine structurally.
I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that off and buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th aluminum with a 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully polished up. The question is, is it okay to just rivet these two pieces of aluminum together or is there something I should sandwich in between them to improve the connection? Does the bond need to be sealed with dielectric grease or some such? What have others done in this situation? |
The goals for achieving gas-tightness of
the conducting materials are the same for
your ground lug as for putting terminals on
a piece of wire.
Don't take the corrosion proofing off your
nutplate . . . or other hardware. In fact,
there's no need to scuff the facing aluminum
parts, just get them clean.
Screws would be better than rivets. Rivets
are SHEAR fasteners and what you're trying
to achieve is a intimate contact between two
pieces of metal with TENSION fasteners.
4 - 5 stainless steel, 6-32 screws torqued
to values recommended by the manufacturer
(or AC43-13) would be better. A light coat
of silicone grease between faying surfaces
of the aluminum would be good too.
Having said all that, know that a whole
lot of folks have installed ground lugs
thusly . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg
. . . and they're probably gong to be just
fine.
Bob . . . | Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
====================================
List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
====================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
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[quote][b]
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_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA |
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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: Grounding Lug |
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Yes, conductivity is the way Boeing tests material coming off the coating line at their Auburn facility. It's too hard to tell the difference between alodine and anodize by color but the conductivity test is conclusive. If it conducts, it's alodine, if it doesn't, it's anodize.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 7:27 PM, <MLWynn(at)aol.com (MLWynn(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] I have used conversion coating before priming for much of the substructure. This conducts well?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 9/14/2009 3:49:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com) writes:
| Quote: | You can also alodine the parts before riveting / bolting.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:40 AM 9/13/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all,
I am building an RV 8. The battery is rear mounted. I was planning to ground the battery to the lower longeron that is directly adjacent. I checked with Vans, who said that four or five rivets no closer than 1/2 inch apart is fine structurally.
I had previously primed the longeron, so I carefully scraped that off and buffed it up with white Scotchbrite. I built a lug of 1/8th aluminum with a 1/4" nutplate on the bottom, which I also carefully polished up. The question is, is it okay to just rivet these two pieces of aluminum together or is there something I should sandwich in between them to improve the connection? Does the bond need to be sealed with dielectric grease or some such? What have others done in this situation? |
The goals for achieving gas-tightness of
the conducting materials are the same for
your ground lug as for putting terminals on
a piece of wire.
Don't take the corrosion proofing off your
nutplate . . . or other hardware. In fact,
there's no need to scuff the facing aluminum
parts, just get them clean.
Screws would be better than rivets. Rivets
are SHEAR fasteners and what you're trying
to achieve is a intimate contact between two
pieces of metal with TENSION fasteners.
4 - 5 stainless steel, 6-32 screws torqued
to values recommended by the manufacturer
(or AC43-13) would be better. A light coat
of silicone grease between faying surfaces
of the aluminum would be good too.
Having said all that, know that a whole
lot of folks have installed ground lugs
thusly . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg
. . . and they're probably gong to be just
fine.
Bob . . .
List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: Grounding Lug |
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At 09:02 PM 9/14/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, conductivity is the way Boeing tests material coming off the
coating line at their Auburn facility. It's too hard to tell the
difference between alodine and anodize by color but the conductivity
test is conclusive. If it conducts, it's alodine, if it doesn't, it's anodize.
|
Alodine and other conversion coatings are "synthetic
rust" wherein the end product is less undesirable than
the naturally occurring alternatives. These treatments
have more to do with protection of the exposed surfaces
from environmental effects.
The definition of a gas-tight joint is that environmental
effects are mechanically excluded from entry. This is
accomplished first by upsetting the two metal surfaces of
interest such that they're mashed together so tightly
that bad stuff can't get in. Micro-gaps can be closed
with things like dielectric greases (silicone) that
squish out of metal-to-metal contact but "plug"
any voids were the metal surfaces do not quite come
together.
While protective surface conversions of any type
may be beneficial to the base metal, they can offer
no particular enhancement of electrical bonding between
two pieces when you put the mash on them.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
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