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throttle set-up

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ter_turn(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: throttle set-up

It looks like the dual throttle set up shown on 6-E-5 is a "pull " system. Does anyone have such a set up and has it caused any problems as opposed to the standard push throttle? I realize a person can get used to anything, but this seems counter intuitive. Yes, No?



Terry Turnquist

601XL



           [quote][b]

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: throttle set-up

The throttles should be push to open. The Bing carbs are spring loaded  

to open throttle and you have to pull against the springs to close the  

throttles. You should try to keep all the major systems as standard as  

practical. There's no good reason not to set the throttles up for push  

to open.



On Sep 19, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Terry Turnquist wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   It looks like the dual throttle set up shown on 6-E-5 is a "pull "  

 system. Does anyone have such a set up and has it caused any  

 problems as opposed to the standard push throttle? I realize a  

 person can get used to anything, but this seems counter intuitive.  

 Yes, No?




	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:32 pm Post subject: throttle set-up

Terry,

The pull type system is absurd and one should do all things practical 

that sets the throttle to push to open. I would also eliminate the 

spring action that

provides no safety or intuitive motion or resolution if one spring 

breaks.  It's not as hard to do a type certified example if you really 

set your mind to

it.  When ever would you allow someone to fly your aircraft if it were 

different from the expected thing. That becomes a safety issue, big time.

Yes, counter intuitive is incorrect!



Best regards,

Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Terry Turnquist wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   It looks like the dual throttle set up shown on 6-E-5 is a "pull " 

 system. Does anyone have such a set up and has it caused any problems 

 as opposed to the standard push throttle? I realize a person can get 

 used to anything, but this seems counter intuitive. Yes, No?



 Terry Turnquist

 601XL

geather

Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Mt Hutton Australia

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: throttle set-up

All



Whilst on the duel throttle system - does anyone have any ideas on how to

overcome the friction in the standard kit supplied by Jabiru USA. The

thickness of the inner throttle cable and the arc through which it is

required to operate make opening (and closing) the throttle difficult. 



Geoff 601 XL (Nearly finished) 



--

_________________
ge

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:13 am Post subject: throttle set-up

Hi Geoff,



I didn't like the feel of the included dual throttle kit from 

JabiruUSA either.  I decided the problem was the fact that the torque 

tube was mounted on the shelf above the nose gear and the control 

path is even higher at that point because of the direction of the 

arms on the torque tube.  This is natural since it was part of the 

firewall forward package and that was the only place forward of the 

firewall to mount the torque tube.



On my plane I decided to move the torque tube to aft of the 

firewall.  I mounted it at three points - two side skins and below 

the center channel that runs between the firewall and instrument 

panel.  Also I faced the arms downward to keep the control path at 

the same level as the throttle connection on the carburetor.  Rather 

than using the supplied torque tube, I reproduced the design with 

longer arms.  I also mounted the throttle knobs and carb heat knob on 

the side skin -- my arms aren't long enough to reach the instrument 

panel while leaning back in the seat.  The result is a very smooth 

dual throttle implementation.



If you look in the archives you will probably find some pictures I 

posted of this design.



The bad news is it took me a couple of months to implement this along 

with a redirection of the carb heat control.



Good luck,



Paul

XL awaiting engineering changes

At 09:00 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Whilst on the duel throttle system - does anyone have any ideas on how to

overcome the friction in the standard kit supplied by Jabiru USA. The

thickness of the inner throttle cable and the arc through which it is

required to operate make opening (and closing) the throttle difficult.



Geoff 601 XL (Nearly finished)

geather

Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Mt Hutton Australia

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:51 am Post subject: throttle set-up

Paul



Thanks for the reply - sounds like a great idea. Any chance of reposting the

pictures of your design? I found your previous comments in the archives but

am unable to access the pictures.



Geoff 



 



--

_________________
ge

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: throttle set-up

Hi Geoff,



 I'm not really sure I ever posted the pictures to the group site.  I'm sure I sent them out, but perhaps it was only to a few people who asked.  In any event, here they are.  I hope they help . . . 



 Paul



 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920035639.04ceae78(at)att.net.0[/img] 



 

 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920035639.04ceae78(at)att.net.1[/img] 



 

 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920035639.04ceae78(at)att.net.2[/img] 



 

 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920035639.04ceae78(at)att.net.3[/img] 



 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920035639.04ceae78(at)att.net.4[/img] 



 

 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920035639.04ceae78(at)att.net.5[/img] 



 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920035639.04ceae78(at)att.net.6[/img] 



 

 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920035639.04ceae78(at)att.net.7[/img] 



 

 Note: the picture file names give a clue about what is contained.



 Good luck,



 Paul



 

 At 03:48 AM 9/20/2009, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Paul



 Thanks for the reply - sounds like a great idea. Any chance of reposting the

 pictures of your design? I found your previous comments in the archives but

 am unable to access the pictures.



 Geoff

Cable_End_Adjuster_-_old_and_new.jpg

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DaveG601XL

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:17 am Post subject: Re: throttle set-up

Geoff,



I installed the Jabiru FWF supplied dual throttle system as intended by Jabiru.  Initially it did have a lot of inherent friction and hysteresis.  I worked at reducing friction at all the movement points.  I put doublers on the instrument panel and firewall where the throttle cable passes through to eliminate flexing.  I also pre-bent the solid throttle wire where it passes through the firewall and flared up the opening that the wire passes through.  This and some teflon lube has resulted in very satisfactory operation.  I worked on it quite a bit and, admittedly at one point, was near to scrapping the system outright, but persistence paid off.  I has been operating very well in flight for over a year and 100+ hours now.



Good luck on yours,

_________________
David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: throttle set-up

Is an international safety std...  All pilots in the world react instictly to pull to idle the engine and push to power up...

  

 Other will be very dangerous...

  

 Saludos

 Gary Gower.



  

  

 

--- On Sat, 9/19/09, Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Re: throttle set-up

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 10:18 PM



 --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net (bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net)>



The throttles should be push to open. The Bing carbs are spring loaded to open throttle and you have to pull against the springs to close the throttles. You should try to keep all the major systems as standard as practical. There's no good reason not to set the throttles up for push to open.



On Sep 19, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Terry Turnquist wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   It looks like the dual throttle set up shown on 6-E-5 is a "pull " system. Does anyone have such a set up and has it caused any problems as opposed to the standard push throttle? I realize a person can get used to anything, but this seems counter intuitive. Yes, No?

 


	


--Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List" target=_blank>http://www.mp://forums.matronics.com/" ;               -Matt Dralle, List Admin==========





	


           [quote][b]

z601a(at)anemicaardvark.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: throttle set-up

On Monday 21 September 2009 14:32, Gary Gower wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Is an international safety std...  All pilots in the world react instictly

 to pull to idle the engine and push to power up... 

 Other will be very dangerous...

  


	


It certainly should be made to work in the standard manner. However, I'm not 

aware of anything in the FARs which require this for an experimental 

aircraft. Those are the only standards which legally apply. I think you can 

legally build an aircraft in which "push" idles it, but it would be very 

foolish to do so.



I'd personally refuse to fly an aiorcraft with the throttle wired backwards.

=============================================

                Do not archive.

=============================================

                Jim B Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

     Retired aerospace technical manager



     Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.

         Do not drink and derive.

=============================================

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: throttle set-up

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  I dunnooooo, maybe it would be fun to have "push to close" throttles, and  reverse the rudder and aileron cables. Make it a real customized  plane..........If nothing else, nobody would ever steal it---successfully

  

 Paul R

 [quote]   ---

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: throttle set-up

I seem to recall reading that the WWII British war birds have a pull-to-go, push-to-stop throttle.  I think that airplanes we furnished for their use had to have the throttle action reversed.  I wouldn't want to fly just any airplane with that setup, but I think if I got a chance to fly a Spitfire, I wouldn't refuse because of the throttle setup.

 

 Jay Bannister

 

   

 

   

 

 --

z601a(at)anemicaardvark.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject: throttle set-up

On Monday 21 September 2009 17:27, jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    I seem to recall reading that the WWII British war birds have a

 pull-to-go, push-to-stop throttle.? I think that airplanes we furnished for

 their use had to have the throttle action reversed.? I wouldn't want to fly

 just any airplane with that setup, but I think if I got a chance to fly a

 Spitfire, I wouldn't refuse because of the throttle setup.




	


Jay, I suppose I'm a devout coward, but I would probably refuse. I know darned 

well I'd forget, and jam the throttle in at a critical time. But that's me.

-- 

=============================================

                Do not archive.

=============================================

                Jim B Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

     Retired aerospace technical manager



     Mathematics and alcohol do not mix.

         Do not drink and derive.

=============================================

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: throttle set-up

Spitfires were "push to open" for sure.

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912

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