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GrummanDude
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA
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 Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: Float doesn't |
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I had a customer call several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the engine felt normal. We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that. The next few flights were about the same. He didn't worry much about the engine.
A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called saying it was worse.
Note: He has a Cheetah, O320-E2G. Several years ago I had a customer with the same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way out.
I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it in. He planned to bring it in but never did. The engine 'felt' better.
Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. He said it barely ran at idle. He finally brought it in last Friday.
I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. We removed the cowling and airbox. Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. I expected to find something like that. Nothing. Venturi was tight, accelerator nozzle was tight . . . nothing. I removed the carb.
I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. Nothing. Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. These are the white floats. They should have been changed. Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. All new parts.
Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning.
[quote][b]
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Gary
AuCountry Aviation
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: Float doesn't |
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Easy... Find the yellow tag that was sent with the rebult carb/engine and take a pic of the floats. send it in to the local FSDO/FSFO etc.. If they are going to charge a premium price for aircraft quality work then by gosh they need to deliver.. MHO.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
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GrummanDude
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: Float doesn't |
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And what would that prove? The carb was rebuilt using the then current specifications.
It's not surprising to me the float failed. It's not like floats in carbs haven't been around for 100 years. It doesn't surprise to me that the floats used in planes are inferior to those used in cars.
The hoops the FAA requires a manufacture to jump through completely eliminates the possibility for improving a product. Some of the testing they require and the standards that they work to are totally out-of-sink with reality. Companies are so gun shy when it comes to making improvements because it's like saying, "Hey, we knew the previous version sucked, now we're making a better one." An improvement means they are liable for all the junk they sold before. Airworthiness Directive or not.
Putting it another way: The avionics, engines, materials, autopilots, practically everything available to the experimental aircraft builder is the better than that available to the certified aircraft owner. Even when the products are exactly the same, those for the certified plane are 3 or 4 times the price. Not because they are better; because of the ridiculous FAA testing required on a product on top of the testing done just to get the product to market.
What amazes me most is, the FAA has no liability for a product failure. None. It cost me 9 years and $150,000 to get a fiberglass cowling STCd as a replacement for a metal cowling. Fiberglass is an insulator. I had to pay $5,000 for a burn test (Plus $1,000 to make 4 test panels to spec) so they could be burned and show they wouldn't disintegrate if there was an engine fire. I had to redo all of the carb heat rise testing even though none of my changes involved anything to do with carb heat. WHY? Because I "MIGHT" have changed the amount of pressure in the cowling enough to affect the carb heat rise. And, I couldn't say the cowling reduced drag or made the plane more efficient because then I'd have to include a completely new set of performance testing for changes to the POH.
Now that the STC is signed off I can say, the cowling adds about 6 to 10 knots. But, don't tell the FAA. [smile]
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Gary
AuCountry Aviation
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: Float doesn't |
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My mistake. I thought the Semi- transparent floats were not legal to use back in 2005
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. Nothing. Then I noticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. These are the white floats. They should have been changed. Except that, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. All new parts.
Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
[quote] """""""""""""""
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
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MONTY(at)bpaengines.com
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: Float doesn't |
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Having run some engines and engine parts thru the FAA certification process I can wholeheartedly agree with whomever teamgrumman is. FAR 33 covers the certification steps necessary to get an engine and / or engine parts thru the test portion of cert. PLUS, the FAA Engineer can specify additional requirements if he so chooses and can make a valid case for doing so. Valid, in this case, means " to the administrator ", not the applicant. Furthermore a 300 hour minimum test on an engine running at max power most of the time and with the CHT and Oil Temp at redline minimum, it becomess very grueling for the operator AND the engine with just a little bit of danger thrown in for good measure. Has anybody ever seen a cylinder come off an engine while the engine is making maximum power ? How about a connecting rod or a counterweight which has ventilated a crankcase ?
Monty Barrett
BPE, Inc.
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tedd(at)vansairforce.org
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: Float doesn't |
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| Quote: | Has anybody ever seen a cylinder come off an engine while the engine is making maximum power ?
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Not seen it, but felt it from the pilot's seat. And I concur that it's exciting. It sounded like a sling-load of steel pipe hitting the deck of a ship -- or, at least, what I imagine that would sound like.
Tedd
[quote][b]
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GrummanDude
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: Float doesn't |
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The carb was overhauled in March 2005. I thought the SB came out after that.
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Gary
AuCountry Aviation
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