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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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 Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: door |
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IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
[quote][b]
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:06 am Post subject: door |
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I don’t know the builder or owner..
Phil
==================
Airframe Info
Manufacturer:
Koonce John P
Model:
RV-10 \
Year built:
2007
Construction Number (C/N):
40428
Number of Seats:
4
Number of Engines:
1
Engine Manufacturer and Model:
Lycoming IO-540-D4A5
Owner
Registration Type:
Individual
Address:
Jefferson City, MO 65109
United States
Region:
Central
Status
Certification Class:
Experimental
Certification Issued:
2007-02-06
Air Worthiness Test:
2007-06-13
Last Action Taken:
2007-02-06
Current Status:
Valid
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: door |
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I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailŽ. See how. | Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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lbgjb10
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: door |
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Probably the achilles heal of the 10. We use a secondary strap every time. Simple and reliable--I think. larry
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Larry and Gayle N104LG |
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: door |
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I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailŽ. See how. [quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: door |
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It's really essential that everyone have some improved way of keeping the doors closed: our metal door blocks are one way, buy you could also make your own, get Rivetheads, use a strap or something. This is happening a LOT and it's only a matter of time until the results are very bad.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:02 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007(at)cox.net (dlm46007(at)cox.net)> wrote:
[quote]
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net (dlm46007(at)cox.net)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RV10-List: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailŽ. See how.
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: door |
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Not N416EC. The number has not been changed on that one, nor has it been sold. As was mentioned, that's probably the achilles heal of the RV-10. I recommend that you get a strap or some other safety device so your number doesn't come up.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:02 PM, David McNeill wrote:
| Quote: |
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net (dlm46007(at)cox.net)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailŽ. See how.
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: door |
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Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
- When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cruise etc)?
- Was the Van door warning installed
- What kind of door blocks were being used (Van’s nylon, Rivethead, IflyRV10 etc)?
- Were any other “secondary” latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 – living in f/g hell.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
| Quote: | | ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution |
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailŽ. See how. | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0123456789 | Quote: | | ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0 | Quote: | | ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
1 | Quote: | | ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject: door |
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Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
- When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cruise etc)?
- Was the Van door warning installed
- What kind of door blocks were being used (Van’s nylon, Rivethead, IflyRV10 etc)?
- Were any other “secondary” latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 – living in f/g hell.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
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90123456
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speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: door |
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I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream at you when you advance the throttle and don’t have all 4 pins locked. The solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:44 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
- When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cruise etc)?
- Was the Van door warning installed
- What kind of door blocks were being used (Van’s nylon, Rivethead, IflyRV10 etc)?
- Were any other “secondary” latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 – living in f/g hell.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
| Quote: | | ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution |
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6
[quote][b]
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toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: door |
|
|
More 2 cents…Remember to make sure the door pins go all the way through the upright F-1005 and F-1042. I have mine such that there is solid pin (with no taper) engaged in the hole in these uprights. That is a lot of strength in shear with this, so as long as the door and latch is closed properly it is not going anywhere. Now if the door can flex in the middle thereby pulling those out such as if the cabin were pressurized that could be a problem.
-Chris
#40072
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:54 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream at you when you advance the throttle and don’t have all 4 pins locked. The solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:44 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
- When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cruise etc)?
- Was the Van door warning installed
- What kind of door blocks were being used (Van’s nylon, Rivethead, IflyRV10 etc)?
- Were any other “secondary” latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 – living in f/g hell.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
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901234
[quote][b]
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zackrv8
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 133
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: door |
|
|
[quote="speckter(at)comcast.net"]I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream at you when you advance the throttle and donât have all 4 pins locked. The solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
I agree,
I have the Door Guides and Pins and have been flying my RV10 for a year now without a problem. I have redundant warning switches in my setup. One reed switch is for the DOOR LIGHT warning on the instrument panel. The other is for the Garmin 900X which gives a DOOR OPEN warning above 1800RPM. Plus, in my checklist, when it comes to "DOORS CLOSED and LOCKED" the Pilot is required to physically check both doors closed and locked. Triple checks!
Zack
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RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512 |
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roxianmike(at)msn.com
Guest
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gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: door |
|
|
Guys,
On my doors, when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking pins go THROUGH the phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame. The phenolic blocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to guide the locking pin through the metal!
I have warning lights on the aft pins - if the pin does not go through the metal hole, the light does not get turned off.
And part of the before takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle is locked into position and that you cannot push out on the door.
You must make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and not trust your seat-mate to do it correctly.
grumpy
N184JM
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
| Quote: | Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
- When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cruise etc)?
- Was the Van door warning installed
- What kind of door blocks were being used (Vans nylon, Rivethead, IflyRV10 etc)?
- Were any other secondary latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 living in f/g hell.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: FW: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: doorThat kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net (dlm46007(at)cox.net)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailŽ. See how.
01234567890123
4
|
= [quote][b]
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: door |
|
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Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged special care was taken to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rotate my door handles towards the open position the lights come on with about 10 degrees of motion...well in advance of the over center position...Another reminder is when flying alone double check the passenger door...assuming it is locked and secure could be a big risk...Question... I have door key locks....what do most of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or just close the handle.Rick SkedN246RSLooking forward to LOE
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: Miller John
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:07:04 -0500
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Guys,
On my doors,= when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking pins go THROUGH the= phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame. The phenolic bl= ocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to guide the locking= pin through the metal!
I have warning lights on= the aft pins - if the pin does not go through the metal hole, the light= does not get turned off.
And part of the before= takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle is locked into position an= d that you cannot push out on the door.
You must= make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and not trust your= seat-mate to do it correctly.
grumpy
N= 184JM
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,= Les Kearney wrote:
Hi
<= o:p>
T= hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting= to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
- When did= the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cruise etc)?=
- Was the Van door warning installed
- What kind of door= blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead, IflyRV10 etc)?
- Were any other =93secondary=94 latches / straps etc being used?
&= nbsp;
The 41= 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely not&nbs= p;the way to go when installing doors. Anyway, in my not so humble opinion,= an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death experience= in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 =96 living in f/g hell.
<= div><= /font>
From:</= font> owner-rv10-list-server(at)ma= tronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)= ] On Behalf Of <= /span>David McNeill
S= ent: Septembe= r-28-09 3:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject:[/b] FW: RV10-List: door
<= /div>
</= o:p>
I believe yo= u may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and= the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check= the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.<= /span>
=
Fr= om: owner-rv10-li= st-server(at)matronics.com ([email]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matron= ics.com[/email]) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matro= nics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: =rv10-list(at)matronics.com</= a>
Subject: RE: RV10-List:= doorThat kinda sucks! I've been working= on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I= saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted= up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net (dlm46007(at)cox.net)
To: rv10= -list(at)matronics.com ([email]rv10-li= st(at)matronics.com[/email])
Subject: RV10-List: door
Da= te: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU &nbs= p; Make/Model: EXP &n= bsp; Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 = Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury:= None Mid Air: N Missing: N
&= nbsp; Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: J= EFFERSON CITY State: MO Cou= ntry: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR= SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY<= /st1:city>, MO
INJURY DATA &nbs= p; Total Fatal: 0
 = ; # Crew= : 1 Fat: 0 &nbs= p; Ser: 0 Min: 0&nbs= p; Unk:
&n= bsp; # Pass: 1 = Fat: 0 Ser: &n= bsp; 0 Min: 0 = Unk: =
&nbs= p; # Grnd: &nbs= p; Fat: 0 Ser: 0&nbs= p; Min: 0 Unk: =
WEA= THER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
| Quote: | <= o:p> ttp://[url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1= 0-List]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url]ronics.com | Quote: | | ww.matronics.com/contribution= |
= <= /span>
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.= [url=http://windo= wslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Quick= Add_062009]See how.[/url]
href=3D"[url=http://www.matro= nics.com/contribution]http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/url]">[url=http://www.mat= ronics.com/c]http://w= ww.matronics.com/c[/url] |
01234567=89 | Quote: | | ttp://[url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1= 0-List]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
0
= | Quote: | | ttp://[url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1= 0-List]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
1
[/quote]=
=3D | Quote: | | ttp://[url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1= 0-List]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
2
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: door |
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Mike
Your engineer friend has, as engineers often do, failed to understand the real problem and thereby design the correct solution. Implementation of this solution would, at some point, result in recognition that he has designed a “detective control” rather than a “preventative control”. Even at that, it is still inadequate as it would only be effective for pilots of the male persuasion.
..Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne and Mike Lefever
Sent: September-28-09 5:46 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
I asked my local design engineer to review the door design and consider an "ultimate" solution to these concerns. His reply would probably work but I may not adopt it. His solution: (a) tie a piece of safety wire on the door handle; (b) run it under the passenger seat; (c) wrap around both testicles.
You won't ever forget to check the pins are engaged. On the rare chance you do forget and the door departs the aircraft, you won't be focused on that particular problem.
If this violates the decorum of the Matronics rules of the road. I hereby apply for a pardon.
From: toaster73(at)embarqmail.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:23:04 -0400
More 2 cents…Remember to make sure the door pins go all the way through the upright F-1005 and F-1042. I have mine such that there is solid pin (with no taper) engaged in the hole in these uprights. That is a lot of strength in shear with this, so as long as the door and latch is closed properly it is not going anywhere. Now if the door can flex in the middle thereby pulling those out such as if the cabin were pressurized that could be a problem.
-Chris
#40072
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:54 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream at you when you advance the throttle and don’t have all 4 pins locked. The solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:44 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
- When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cruise etc)?
- Was the Van door warning installed
- What kind of door blocks were being used (Van’s nylon, Rivethead, IflyRV10 etc)?
- Were any other “secondary” latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 – living in f/g hell.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: FW: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: door
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
| Quote: | | ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution |
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailŽ. See how. | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0123456789 | Quote: | | ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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7 | Quote: | | ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
8 | Quote: | | ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
90123456789 | Quote: | | ww.matronics.com/contribution |
0
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901234567890123456
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: door |
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I do not lock the doors when flying solo. Don't want to hinder emergency evacuation.
grumpy
do not archive
On Sep 28, 2009, at 7:29 PM, ricksked(at)embarqmail.com (ricksked(at)embarqmail.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged special care was taken to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rotate my door handles towards the open position the lights come on with about 10 degrees of motion...well in advance of the over center position...Another reminder is when flying alone double check the passenger door...assuming it is locked and secure could be a big risk...Question... I have door key locks....what do most of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or just close the handle.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Looking forward to LOE
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: Miller John
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:07:04 -0500
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Guys,
On my doors,= when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking pins go THROUGH the= phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame. The phenolic bl= ocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to guide the locking= pin through the metal!
I have warning lights on= the aft pins - if the pin does not go through the metal hole, the light= does not get turned off.
And part of the before= takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle is locked into position an= d that you cannot push out on the door.
You must= make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and not trust your= seat-mate to do it correctly.
grumpy
N= 184JM
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,= Les Kearney wrote:
Hi
<= o:p>
T= hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting= to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
- When did= the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cruise etc)?=
- Was the Van door warning installed
- What kind of door= blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead, IflyRV10 etc)?
- &= nbsp;
The 41= 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely not&nbs= p;the way to go when installing doors. Anyway, in my not so humble opinion,= an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death experience= in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 =96 living in f/g hell.
<= div><= /font>
From: [url=3D"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com"]owner-rv10-list-server(at)ma= tronics.com[/url] [[url==3D"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com"]mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com[/url]= ] On Behalf Of <= /span>David McNeill
S= ent: Septembe= r-28-09 3:03 PM
To: [url=3D"mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
<= /div>
I believe yo= u may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and= the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check= the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.<= /span>
=
Fr= om: [url=3D"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matron=]owner-rv10-li= st-server(at)matronics.com[/url] [[url=3D"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com"]mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matro= nics.com[/url]] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: =[url=3D"mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject: RE: RV10-List:= door[url=3D"mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"][/url][url=3D"mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"][/url]That kinda sucks! I've been working= on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I= saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted= up to the firewall.
[url=3D"mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"]From: [/url][url=3D"mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net"]dlm46007(at)cox.net[/url]
To: [url=3D"mailto:rv10-li=]rv10= -list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject: door
Da= te: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU &nbs= p; Make/Model: EXP &n= bsp; Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 = Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury:= None Mid Air: N Missing: N
&= nbsp; Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: J= EFFERSON CITY State: MO Cou= ntry: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR= SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY<= /st1:city>, MO
INJURY DATA &nbs= p; Total Fatal: 0
= ; # Crew= : 1 Fat: 0 &nbs= p; Ser: 0 Min: 0&nbs= p; Unk:
&n= bsp; # Pass: 1 = Fat: 0 Ser: &n= bsp; 0 Min: 0 = Unk: =
&nbs= p; # Grnd: &nbs= p; Fat: 0 Ser: 0&nbs= p; Min: 0 Unk: =
WEA= THER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
| Quote: | | <= o:p> ttp://[url=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1=]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
| Quote: | ronics.com | Quote: | | ww.matronics.com/contribution== <= /span> |
|
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.= [url=3D"http://windo=]See how.[/url]
| Quote: | | [b] href=3D"[url=3D"http://www.matroni=]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url]">[url=3D"http=]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url]<= /o:p>h= ref=3D"[url=3D"http://forums.matronics.com"]http://forums.matronics.com[/url]">[url=3D"ht=]http://forums.matronics.com[/url] |
href=3D"[url=3D"http://www.matro=][/url][url=3D"http://www.mat=]http://w= ww.matronics.com/c[/url][/b]0[/b]1234567=89 | Quote: | | ttp://[url=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1=]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
0 |
= | Quote: | | ttp://[url=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1=]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
1
=
=3D | Quote: | | ttp://[url=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1=]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
2 [/quote]
= [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: door |
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|
N416EC had the reed switches installed as well and it took no more than10 degrees of motion before the light came on. The problem is that in less than 10 degrees, unless your hand is firmly gripping the door handle, it can (and will) come open due to the pressures acting upon it. Just checking that the lights are off and the handle in the locked position, IMHO, is not enough. No offense, but having flown over a year with no mishap is not an indication of a safe system, but rather possibly a cause to get careless. I would not consider a latching mechanism that does not have a good length of rod passing through (not just nesting into) a structural metal part, as I understand is a feature of one of the aftermarket options. I want as much rod through a solid base as possible, in case the handle latch does decide to break lose in flight (It can happen. Ask me how I know!). A strap, as I have mentioned before, is the easiest way I can imagine to safety the door. It also allows for some air conditioning during taxi without needing a hand on the handle.
Do not archive
Jesse SaintSaint Aviation
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:29 PM, ricksked(at)embarqmail.com (ricksked(at)embarqmail.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged special care was taken to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rotate my door handles towards the open position the lights come on with about 10 degrees of motion...well in advance of the over center position...Another reminder is when flying alone double check the passenger door...assuming it is locked and secure could be a big risk...Question... I have door key locks....what do most of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or just close the handle.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Looking forward to LOE
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: Miller John
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:07:04 -0500
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: door
Guys,
On my doors,= when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking pins go THROUGH the= phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame. The phenolic bl= ocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to guide the locking= pin through the metal!
I have warning lights on= the aft pins - if the pin does not go through the metal hole, the light= does not get turned off.
And part of the before= takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle is locked into position an= d that you cannot push out on the door.
You must= make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and not trust your= seat-mate to do it correctly.
grumpy
N= 184JM
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,= Les Kearney wrote:
Hi
<= o:p>
T= hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting= to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
- When did= the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cruise etc)?=
- Was the Van door warning installed
- What kind of door= blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead, IflyRV10 etc)?
- &= nbsp;
The 41= 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely not&nbs= p;the way to go when installing doors. Anyway, in my not so humble opinion,= an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death experience= in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 =96 living in f/g hell.
<= div><= /font>
From: mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)= ] On Behalf Of <= /span>David McNeill
S= ent: Septembe= r-28-09 3:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: FW: door
<= /div>
I believe yo= u may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been changed and= the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors and check= the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before takeoff.<= /span>
=
Fr= om: st-server(at)matronics.com (st-server(at)matronics.com) [[url=3D"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com"]mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matro= nics.com[/url]] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: =rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: RV10-List:= door[url=3D"mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"][/url][url=3D"mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"][/url]That kinda sucks! I've been working= on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last time I= saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end was twisted= up to the firewall.
dlm46007(at)cox.net (dlm46007(at)cox.net)
To: -list(at)matronics.com (-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: door
Da= te: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU &nbs= p; Make/Model: EXP &n= bsp; Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 = Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury:= None Mid Air: N Missing: N
&= nbsp; Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: J= EFFERSON CITY State: MO Cou= ntry: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR= SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY<= /st1:city>, MO
INJURY DATA &nbs= p; Total Fatal: 0
= ; # Crew= : 1 Fat: 0 &nbs= p; Ser: 0 Min: 0&nbs= p; Unk:
&n= bsp; # Pass: 1 = Fat: 0 Ser: &n= bsp; 0 Min: 0 = Unk: =
&nbs= p; # Grnd: &nbs= p; Fat: 0 Ser: 0&nbs= p; Min: 0 Unk: =
WEA= THER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
| Quote: | | <= o:p> ttp://[url=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1=]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.= [url=3D"http://windo=]See how.[/url]
| Quote: | | [b] href=3D"[url=3D"http://www.matroni=]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url]">[url=3D"http=]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url]<= /o:p>h= ref=3D"[url=3D"http://forums.matronics.com"]http://forums.matronics.com[/url]">[url=3D"ht=]http://forums.matronics.com[/url] |
href=3D"[url=3D"http://www.matro=][/url][url=3D"http://www.mat=]http://w=[/url] ww.matronics.com/c[/b]0[/b]1234567=89 | Quote: | | ttp://[url=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1=]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
0 |
= | Quote: | | ttp://[url=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1=]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
1
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=3D | Quote: | | ttp://[url=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1=]www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
2
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: door |
|
|
Me too. Thanks John er Grumpy or General ,Just wanted to know your thoughts.....I appreciate more feedback and arguments... I do feel better with the latch "locked". Odds are the door opening vs. Crash and needing rescue....interesting huh?
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: Miller John
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:49:18 -0500
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
I do not lock the doors when flying= solo. Don't want to hinder emergency evacuation.
grumpy
do not archive
On= Sep 28, 2009, at 7:29 PM, rick= sked(at)embarqmail.com (ricksked(at)embarqmail.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged spec= ial care was taken to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rot= ate my door handles towards the open position the lights come on with abou= t 10 degrees of motion...well in advance of the over center position...Ano= ther reminder is when flying alone double check the passenger door...assum= ing it is locked and secure could be a big risk...Question... I have door= key locks....what do most of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or= just close the handle.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Looking forward to= LOE
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: Miller John
Date: Mo= n, 28 Sep 2009 19:07:04 -0500
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com ([email]rv10-lis= t(at)matronics.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: RV= 10-List: door
Guys,
On my doors,=3D when the stock Van's handle locks down,= both locking pins go THROUGH the=3D phenolic guides and are firmly throu= gh metal frame. The phenolic bl=3D ocks are not designed to hold the= door close, merely to guide the locking=3D pin through the metal!
<= div>
I have warning lights on=3D the aft pins - if the pin= does not go through the metal hole, the light=3D does not get turned off= .
And part of the before=3D takeoff checklist is= to ensure that the handle is locked into position an=3D d that you cannot= push out on the door.
You must=3D make this che= ck a slow, methodical check every takeoff and not trust your=3D seat-mate= to do it correctly.
grumpy
N=3D 184JM<= /div>
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,=3D Le= s Kearney wrote:
Hi
<=3D o:p>
= T=3D hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be intere= sting=3D to now the following about each of the incidents to date.</= o:p>
<= ul type=3D"3D"disc"" style=3D"3D"margin-bottom:" 0cm;=3D""= margin-top:=3D"0cm;">[*]When did=3D the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during= climb out, cruise etc)?=3D[*]Was the Van door warning installed[*]Wha= t kind of door=3D blocks were being used (Van=3D92s nylon, Rivethead, Ifl= yRV10 etc)?[*]&= amp;=3D nbsp;[/list]
The 41=3D 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylo= n blocks are definitely not&nbs=3D p;the way to go when installing doors. =Anyway, in my not so humble opi= nion,=3D an improperly unlatched door should not result in a near death= experience=3D in a light single.
Cheers
&n= bsp;
Les
#40643 =3D96 living in f/g hell.
<=3D div><=3D /font>
From: = ;[url=3D"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com&quo= t;]owner-rv10-list-server(at)ma=3D tronics.com[/url] [[url==3D3D"mailto:ow= ner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com"]mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)= matronics.com[/url]=3D ]= O= n Behalf Of <= =3D /span>David McNeill
S=3D ent: Septembe=3D r-28-09 3:03 PM
To: [url=3D"mailto:rv10-list= (at)matronics.com"]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject: FW: RV10-L= ist: door</= span>
&l= t;=3D /div>
I believe yo=3D u may be referring to 416EC; I think the= number has now been changed and=3D the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a= system. I close the doors and check=3D the pins both fore and aft, both= sides, when we load and before takeoff.<=3D /span>=
=3D
Fr=3D om:<= span class=3D"3D"Apple-con=3D" verted-space"=3D""> [url=3D"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)m= atronics.com"]mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matro=3D nics.c= om[/url]] On Behalf Of [/b]<= /span>Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To: =3D[url=3D"mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"]rv10-= list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject: RE: RV10-List:=3D door[url=3D"mailt= o:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"][/url][url=3D"m= ailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"][/url]That kinda sucks! I've been work= ing=3D on the door latches over the weekend and thinking about the last= time I=3D saw this happen. The landing was real firm and the front end= was twisted=3D up to the firewall.
<= font size=3D"3D"2"" face=3D"3D"Verdana"">=
=
[url=3D"mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com"]From: [/url][url=3D&= quot;mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net"]dlm46007(at)cox.net[/url]
To: [url=3D"mailto:rv10-li=3D]rv10=3D -list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject:= RV10-List: door
Da=3D te: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700</= font>
<= span style=3D"3D"font-size:" 10pt;=3D"" font-=3D"family:" arial;=3D""= >
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU &nbs=3D p; = Make/Model: EXP &n=3D= bsp; Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009  = ;=3D Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest In= jury:=3D None Mid Air: N Missin= g: N
&=3D nbsp; Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: J=3D EFFER= SON CITY State: MO Cou=3D= ntry: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR= =3D SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY<=3D= /st1:city>, <= /span>MO=
INJURY DATA &nbs=3D p; Tota= l Fatal: 0
=3D ; &= nbsp; # Crew=3D : &nb= sp; 1 Fat: 0 &nbs=3D p;= Ser: 0 Min: 0&n= bs=3D p; Unk:
&n= bsp; &n=3D bsp; &n= bsp; # Pass: 1 =3D Fat: 0&= nbsp; Ser: &n=3D bsp; 0 = Min: 0 =3D Unk: =3D
= &nbs=3D p;= # Grnd: &n= bs=3D p; Fat: 0 Ser: = 0&nbs=3D p; Min: 0 &nb= sp; Unk: =3D
WEA=3D THER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A29= 95
| Quote: | | <= =3D o:p> ttp://[url=3= D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1=3D]www.matroni= cs.=3D com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url] |
| Quote: | ronics.com | Quote: | | ww.matronics.com/contribution=3D=3D <=3D /span> |
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Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=3D= AE.=3D See how.
=href=3D3D"[url=3D"http://www.matroni=3D]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-L= ist[/url]">[url=3D"http=3D]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/url]<=3D /o:p>h=3D= ref=3D3D"[url=3D"http://forums.matronics.com"]http://for= ums.matronics.com[/url]">[url=3D"ht=3D]http://forums.matronics.com[/url]= |
href=3D3D"[url=3D"http://www= .matro=3D][/url][url=3D"http://www.mat=3D]http://w=3D ww.matronics.com/c[/url][/b] | Quote: | | [b] </= o:p>[/b]01[url=3D"http://w=3D]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Li= st[/url] |
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=3D 8
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