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High Oil temps

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Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:23 am Post subject: High Oil temps

I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previously

had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps

climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. The

rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear is

2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interfere.

This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I

tried the 2nd oil cooler.

Albert Gardner

Yuma, AZ

N991RV

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_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:11 am Post subject: High Oil temps

Sure how this does the job Albert. Of course the AZ hot temps are on

their way out, so limited testing wx remaining.

If it proves to be the fix, it sure would point to the original

lacking sufficient exit area.



On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:22 AM, Albert Gardner <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previously

 had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps

 climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. The

 rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear is

 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interfere.

 This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I

 tried the 2nd oil cooler.

 Albert Gardner

 Yuma, AZ

 N991RV

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:19 am Post subject: High Oil temps

If the flap is a solution , it needs to be retractable for high altitude/

winter and speed. Those cowl flaps are going to cause lots of drag.



--

cjay

Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 53

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:25 am Post subject: Re: High Oil temps

awhile back wasn't there an ecstatic contributer who claimed that by adding louvers at the lower back side of the cowl not only solved his heat and hot tunnel problem, but also showed markedly improved performance?  I seem to remember his name was Glen but I couldn't find the thread.



cjay

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: High Oil temps

I think the cowl flaps are creating a venturi effect that's sucking some 

more of the air out of the lower cowl .... much like the louvers do.  I 

wonder if widening the ramp would be more effective with less drag. 

Maybe a 'lip on the bottom of the ramp would also be beneficial. Just 

wondering out loud!!!

Linn

do not archive



Albert Gardner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previously

 had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps

 climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. The

 rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear is

 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interfere.

 This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I

 tried the 2nd oil cooler.

 Albert Gardner

 Yuma, AZ

 N991RV

 

 

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: High Oil temps

FYI we tested the lip under the ramp as you described with no noticeable

temp improvement. This was before we added the louvers so we may have

tried to overcome too much heat with this small mod. Obviously there are

many possible design solutions for this lip but our testing showed no

benefit. Again who knows if we cut back the trailing edge 0.5" or made a

wider lip or, or, or....



Robin



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: High Oil temps

At one time I put some angle pieces of aluminum scrap along the bottom

of the cowl in a couple places, trying to make a few vortex generators

that would perhaps pull more air out the cowl.  It did seem to me that

this helped.  I don't have them on any longer, but I can see putting

them on and trying them again some day.  Seemed like a little

easy benefit.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Linn Walters wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I think the cowl flaps are creating a venturi effect that's sucking some 

 more of the air out of the lower cowl .... much like the louvers do.  I 

 wonder if widening the ramp would be more effective with less drag. 

 Maybe a 'lip on the bottom of the ramp would also be beneficial. Just 

 wondering out loud!!!

 Linn

 do not archive

 Albert Gardner wrote:

> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I 

> previously

> had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps

> climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. 

> The

> rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the 

> rear is

> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would 

> interfere.

> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I

> tried the 2nd oil cooler.

> Albert Gardner

> Yuma, AZ

> N991RV

>

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: High Oil temps

Here's what I did.... pretty sure it helped, but I didn't fly for 3-4 weeks while the plane was being painted.  Temps are manageable, but I've got a couple of more ideas up the ole sleeve.

 If these pics are too big, please don't open.

 Don McDonald

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	

From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Subject: Re: High Oil temps

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 1:22 PM

 --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>

At one time I put some angle pieces of aluminum scrap along the bottom

of the cowl in a couple places, trying to make a few vortex generators

that would perhaps pull more air out the cowl.  It did seem to me that

this helped.  I don't have them on any longer, but I can see putting

them on and trying them again some day.  Seemed like a little

easy benefit.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Linn Walters wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>

 I think the cowl flaps are creating a venturi effect that's  sucking some more of the air out of the lower cowl .... much like the louvers do.  I wonder if widening the ramp would be more effective with less drag. Maybe a 'lip on the bottom of the ramp would also be beneficial. Just wondering out loud!!!

 Linn

 do not archive

 Albert Gardner wrote:

> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previously

> had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps

> climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. The

> rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear is

> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interfere.

> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I

> tried the 2nd oil cooler.

> Albert Gardner

> Yuma, AZ

> N991RV

>  --> http://forums.sp;     ;                     &nbttp://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.===================

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_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

n277dl

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 49
Location: Muscatine IA

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: High Oil temps

Group...  



Trying to understand how prevalent of a problem high oil temps are with the -10.  I've purchased the 2006x from Airflow.  I'm in Iowa so definitely don't have the temps of AZ but daughter is in San Antonio and make that trip a few times a year.  It'd sure be easier to deal with now while building instead of later if I'm going to have to.



Thoughts?



Doug

_________________
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: High Oil temps

Doug,



I live in Omaha and almost always see oil temps of 195-197.  I flew down to San Antonio in mid August and saw 210 during climbout down there but the temp came down during cruise.



Bob



---

dmaib(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:58 am Post subject: High Oil temps

Doug,



I built my airplane in MN and now live in FL. I will see temps around  

200 degrees in climb to altitude in FL summer temps. Temps come back  

down to 180-185 in cruise. I have the 2006x oil cooler. Prolonged  

slow flight will also cause temps to slowly come back up to around 200.



David Maib

40559

Flying





On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:23 PM, n277dl wrote:






Group...



Trying to understand how prevalent of a problem high oil temps are  

with the -10.  I've purchased the 2006x from Airflow.  I'm in Iowa so  

definitely don't have the temps of AZ but daughter is in San Antonio  

and make that trip a few times a year.  It'd sure be easier to deal  

with now while building instead of later if I'm going to have to.



Thoughts?



Doug



--------

Doug

&quot;Fools&quot; are always more creative than process people and  

will always find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 65651#265651

bill@airflow

Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 7

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:53 am Post subject: Re: High Oil temps

To those challenged with high oil temps on your RV-10, Airflow Systems (not Airflow Performance, a common mistake) offers the use of our digital manometer for free for one week to RV-10 owners and others (you pay freight and insurance both ways).  This is available even if you do not have one of our 2006X or 2008X oil coolers.



With the help of many RV-10 owners we have found the following from our testing:



The stock RV-10 and James cowl do not have the desired pressure differential for optimum cylinder and oil cooling, as supplied.



Adding louvers on the side of the cowl offers the biggest improvement in pressure differential for the effort, appearance is a personal issue.



The stock Vans inlets are larger than necessary for stock engines, exit area flow needs improvement if you are going to use all of the RV-10s performance potential.  We have reduced the inlet area on a -10 in Texas with no adverse effects. It has side louvers and (our) air conditioning.



The biggest problems come from the tightest plenums.  The air must have an area to slow down and build pressure to improve the differential.



There is room for improvement in the Vans oil cooler installation which forces the air through 360 degrees of direction changes.



NACA ducts are not optimal for oil coolers.



Normally I stay off the forums as a supplier but I see a lot of suggestions that we have already tested and I offer this info as a time saver.



After today I will not be able to answer emails until Tuesday.

bill@airflow

Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 7

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: Re: High Oil temps

To add to my previous post, we tried the lips on the cowl exit, with zero benefit, on two different aircraft.

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: High Oil temps

Bill, thanks for surfacing on the RV10 forum and the offer of the

manometer.  That is MOST Generous.



One question you leave hanging is why would the High pressure plenum of

a James Cowl be less or equal than a stock High Pressure Vans?  I would

think the enclosed pressure plenum would help in several ways.



Your most notable comment is the 360 degrees of convoluted distortions

of airflow so the cooler could be mounted on the firewall.  The design

reasoning was the high number of cracked rear metal baffles in the other

Vans lineup.  I would surmise that you support a rear metal baffle mount

with your units.  Airflow contains energy and the management and

extraction of that unit is a valued pursuit.



I am a fan of LoPresti and hence a strong advocate for controllable

outflow of the low pressure side to configure for differing angles of

attack.  They are also strong proponents of tweaking with the manometer.



Thanks again.



John Cox

#40600



--

bill@airflow

Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 7

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: High Oil temps

Plenums can be very useful, we are working on one for the RV-10 now, as are others.  The issue is the volume in the plenum.  Ideally you want the air to enter through a small inlet, trade velocity for increased pressure, and exit into a low pressure area that tries to accelerate the air to ambient velocity as it exits.  Compare the volume of some of the aftermarket plenums to Van's volume above the cylinders, and the related performance, and you can see that not all plenums are improvements.

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:31 pm Post subject: High Oil temps

I have the James Plenum and as a last ditch effort added ~25% more

volume to our plenum based on the greater volume concept and found ZERO

improvement. Obviously we have the aerodynamic knowledge of most 12 year

olds but I did expect to see some improvement or at least some change. 

I believe we borrowed Bill's manometer which was extremely helpful in

sorting out DP issues.



Robin



--

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