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AFS - Alternator Warning

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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: AFS - Alternator Warning

I am flying with an AFS 3500EE EFIS / Engine Monitor.  Yesterday the airplane was being flown and the fuse blew on the alternator field circuit causing the alternator go off line.  Turns out the alternator AMPS warning is OFF by default and no warning was heard.  It wasn't until the battery was low that an audible / visual alert was presented on the EFIS.  Not sure just how long it took for the battery to get to the low voltage warning condition.  I have copied the flight data from the EFIS and will review the data to see just how long it took.  The EFIS went to backup battery during the flight and the flight was terminated with no other problems.This is just a heads up to those flying with the AFS EFIS to check the alternator AMPS setting in the configuration pages should you want an immediate warning for alternator current.  Knowing you have a problem sooner than later is desirable.I did not have the alternator lamp wired (Didn't think I needed it with the EFIS audible alerts).  I will be adding this to the panel in the near future. I love the EFIS, I just missed getting this setting correct.Jim Combs (N312F - 110+ hours)   [quote][b]

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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: AFS - Alternator Warning

Recommend you set the EFIS (or whatever engine monitoring system being used) to alarm on low voltage.  With the alternator on line your buss voltage will be between 13.8 and 14.1 volts.  A fully charged battery is significantly below this level.  Setting a low voltage alarm at say 13.4 volts will immediate tell you your alternator is off line.  Assuming a typical battery installation, and now knowing as soon as the alternator fails, you should have ample battery reserve for continued flight to a convenient place to land and get the alternator fixed.  

   

Carl Froehlich   

RV-8A (500 hrs)  

RV-10 (fuselage fiberglass work)  

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim

 Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 8:28 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: AFS - Alternator Warning  

  

   

I am flying with an AFS 3500EE EFIS / Engine Monitor.  

 

 Yesterday the airplane was being flown and the fuse blew on the alternator field circuit causing the alternator go off line.  Turns out the alternator AMPS warning is OFF by default and no warning was heard.  It wasn't until the battery was low that an audible / visual alert was presented on the EFIS.  Not sure just how long it took for the battery to get to the low voltage warning condition.  I have copied the flight data from the EFIS and will review the data to see just how long it took.  

 

 The EFIS went to backup battery during the flight and the flight was terminated with no other problems.

 

 This is just a heads up to those flying with the AFS EFIS to check the alternator AMPS setting in the configuration pages should you want an immediate warning for alternator current.  Knowing you have a problem sooner than later is desirable.

 

 I did not have the alternator lamp wired (Didn't think I needed it with the EFIS audible alerts).  I will be adding this to the panel in the near future. 

 

 I love the EFIS, I just missed getting this setting correct.

 

 Jim Combs (N312F - 110+ hours)   	  Quote: 	
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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:40 am Post subject: AFS - Alternator Warning

Glad this ended nicely - I have mine set so that it alarms if  my RPM's go over 1500.  Since I have two alternators, my checklist is to  bring the backup online first and look for its light.  When I bring the  primary online the secondary light goes out.

  

 Battery backup is a wonderful safety feature.

 [quote]   ---

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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: AFS - Alternator Warning

I am not sure what the low battery warning is set to.  I will check it.Thanks, Jim CDo Not Archive---------------------------------Recommend you set the EFIS (or whatever engine monitoring system beingused)to alarm on low voltage.  With the alternator on line your buss voltagewillbe between 13.8 and 14.1 volts.  A fully charged battery is significantlybelow this level.  Setting a low voltage alarm at say 13.4 volts willimmediate tell you your alternator is off line.  Assuming a typicalbatteryinstallation, and now knowing as soon as the alternator fails, you shouldhave ample battery reserve for continued flight to a convenient place toland and get the alternator fixed.Carl FroehlichRV-8A (500 hrs)RV-10 (fuselage fiberglass work)From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JimSent: Friday, October 02, 2009 8:28 PMTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: AFS - Alternator WarningI am flying with an AFS 3500EE EFIS / Engine Monitor.Yesterday the airplane was being flown and the fuse blew on the alternatorfield circuit causing the alternator go off line.  Turns out thealternatorAMPS warning is OFF by default and no warning was heard.  It wasn't untilthe battery was low that an audible / visual alert was presented on theEFIS.  Not sure just how long it took for the battery to get to the lowvoltage warning condition.  I have copied the flight data from the EFISandwill review the data to see just how long it took.The EFIS went to backup battery during the flight and the flight wasterminated with no other problems.This is just a heads up to those flying with the AFS EFIS to check thealternator AMPS setting in the configuration pages should you want animmediate warning for alternator current.  Knowing you have a problemsoonerthan later is desirable.I did not have the alternator lamp wired (Didn't think I needed it withtheEFIS audible alerts).  I will be adding this to the panel in the nearfuture.I love the EFIS, I just missed getting this setting correct.Jim Combs (N312F - 110+ hours)   [quote][b]

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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: AFS - Alternator Warning

One of the items I will be verifying is how much time I have from alt failure to systems going off line.  We are running a 960 battery and it should have plenty of backup capability.  But I need to verify what that is.  The EFIS has it's own internal battery.  So I need to do two experiments.  (1) Time from alt off to items going off line and (2) battery voltage where EFIS goes to backup.Thanks, Jim CDo Not ArchiveGlad this ended nicely - I have mine set so that it alarms if my RPM's goover 1500.  Since I have two alternators, my checklist is to bring thebackup online first and look for its light.  When I bring the primaryonline the secondary light goes out.Battery backup is a wonderful safety feature.  ---

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hsdexo

Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 10

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: Re: AFS - Alternator Warning

Jim, on another note, what type alternator do you have installed?[/quote]

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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: AFS - Alternator Warning

I am using the 60 amp alternator that comes with the Vans Firewall Forward kit  I think it is the plane power alternator?  I will check when I get back out to the hanger.I now have the AMP voice alert enabled with the yellow limit at 3 amps and the red limit at 2 amps.  I also raised the volts yellow warning to 12.5 volts and the red to 12.0 volts.Now the amps warning happens as soon as the alternator goes off line and the voltage warning occurs some 20 minutes later (960 battery) with almost 45 minutes of battery until com transmit fails.  Com transmit fails first (SL-30).The two pilots flying agreed to have the pilot (left seat) fly the airplane, co-pilot manage ATC / radios.  They switched the transponder to "No Comm" which alerted ATC of the issue.  They used transponder IDent to "Acknowledge" ATC instructions at which point they were given first priority on getting to the runway (17 minutes)later. Battery voltage was 7 volts on shutdown.  Electronic ignition was operational and EFIS was on battery backup.Both pilots and myself learned a lot from this experience.  I will add a fuse status set of indicators to show a blown fuse.  Never leave any of the electronics setting to change check them all.  Both pilots experienced and handled an in-flight problem with calm team work and ATC was very helpful in working them to the airport in an orderly fashion.  I also learned that the battery has LOTS of power to run the airplane for quite a long while before any system start failing or going to backup.  But the systems need to alert the pilot ASAP. of a condition out of tolerance.  Thats the beauty of the EFIS systems today.  This was all during daytime VFR conditions.  Thanks, Jim C   [quote][b]

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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: AFS - Alternator Warning

This was not an alternator failure. The fuse in the alternator field opened. To the naked eye, it appeared to be OK.  I had to use a multi-meter to verify it was open. The alternator works great.During normal flight, we are pullingabout 6 amps from the alternator.This will increase with the addition of the 430W.On another note, TruTrak called and provideda RMA number for the autopilot.  It is now backto them to have the display changed out andthe buttons / firmware updated to the documented AFS configuration in their latest users manual.Thanks, Jim C (N312F - 120+ hours)    [quote][b]

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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: AFS - Alternator Warning

I suggest revising your yellow warning to 13 Volts to  indicate your alternator is off line; recommend red setting at 12.6V. standard  voltage will be 12.6-12.8 for a fully charged battery without load. Setting  voltage limits a little higher will allow earlier warning of charging problems.  Seven volts is quite low and most avionics will not run reliably at that value;  particularly IFR approach instrumentation.

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Jim

Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:06 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: AFS - Alternator  Warning

I am using the 60 amp alternator that comes with the Vans Firewall  Forward kit  I think it is the plane power alternator?  I will check  when I get back out to the hanger.

I now have the AMP voice alert enabled  with the yellow limit at 3 amps and the red limit at 2 amps.  I also raised  the volts yellow warning to 12.5 volts and the red to 12.0 volts.

Now the  amps warning happens as soon as the alternator goes off line and the voltage  warning occurs some 20 minutes later (960 battery) with almost 45 minutes of  battery until com transmit fails.  Com transmit fails first  (SL-30).

The two pilots flying agreed to have the pilot (left seat) fly  the airplane, co-pilot manage ATC / radios.  They switched the transponder  to "No Comm" which alerted ATC of the issue.  They used transponder IDent  to "Acknowledge" ATC instructions at which point they were given first priority  on getting to the runway (17 minutes)

later. Battery voltage was 7 volts on  shutdown.  Electronic ignition was operational and EFIS was on battery  backup.

Both pilots and myself learned a lot from this experience.   

I will add a fuse status set of indicators to show a blown fuse.   Never leave any of the electronics setting to change check them all.  Both  pilots experienced and handled an in-flight problem with calm team work and ATC  was very helpful in working them to the airport in an orderly fashion.  I  also learned that the battery has LOTS of power to run the airplane for quite a  long while before any system start failing or going to backup.  But the  systems need to alert the pilot ASAP. of a condition out of tolerance.   Thats the beauty of the EFIS systems today.  

This was all during  daytime VFR conditions.  

Thanks, Jim C [quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

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[b]

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