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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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 Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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Phil,
That's along the right track, but if you look at the nylon blocks you can see that the pin hole is drilled at a slight angle, I think in order to pull the pins inboard. Either that, or the angle is supposed to help compensate for the nonparallel fiberglass surface. Whichever, the blocks actually do see some load. Whether that's by design is debatable. Results suggest that they certainly do see a load, and aren't just acting as guides.
The bushing would increase the amount of contact area, which is needed. I see your bushing being in line with the pin, so it wouldn't supply any inward tension. Also, if the nylon block is supporting the bushing, I think it might rock around a bit and eventually tear up the block.
Metal guide blocks do essentially the same thing as the bushing, and also provide the inward tension.
Here's one of my blocks before it got upgraded.
[img]cid:ii_1242ab58e74d5ff4[/img]
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Good morning,
I havent reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how they function.
This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
Im going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted statements.
1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon block area and into the aluminum frame even if the pins do not fully extend in to the frame.
Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do is slightly oversize the 7/16 hole (say 5/8) in the aluminum. The bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16. The cabin top and the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the bushing. (~5/8)
Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame. The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16 or 1/8 really depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material and into the door frame.
Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today nothing changes. Youre still good but just have a little extra protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some structural support further up the door pins.
Anyone have any thoughts? I think Im going to call around to a couple of local machine shops.
Phil
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gengrumpy(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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It would be nice to have a metal block the exact same size as the nylon one for retrofit.
The bullet and block would not retrofit to my door.....
grumpy
N184JM
do not archive
On Oct 6, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Phil,
That's along the right track, but if you look at the nylon blocks you can see that the pin hole is drilled at a slight angle, I think in order to pull the pins inboard. Either that, or the angle is supposed to help compensate for the nonparallel fiberglass surface. Whichever, the blocks actually do see some load. Whether that's by design is debatable. Results suggest that they certainly do see a load, and aren't just acting as guides.
The bushing would increase the amount of contact area, which is needed. I see your bushing being in line with the pin, so it wouldn't supply any inward tension. Also, if the nylon block is supporting the bushing, I think it might rock around a bit and eventually tear up the block.
Metal guide blocks do essentially the same thing as the bushing, and also provide the inward tension.
Here's one of my blocks before it got upgraded.
[img]cid:ii_1242ab58e74d5ff4[/img]
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Good morning,
I havent reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how they function.
This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
Im going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted statements.
1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon block area and into the aluminum frame even if the pins do not fully extend in to the frame.
Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do is slightly oversize the 7/16 hole (say 5/8) in the aluminum. The bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16. The cabin top and the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the bushing. (~5/8)
Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame. The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16 or 1/8 really depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material and into the door frame.
Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today nothing changes. Youre still good but just have a little extra protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some structural support further up the door pins.
Anyone have any thoughts? I think Im going to call around to a couple of local machine shops.
Phil
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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If we could get that angle, we could machine that into the flange.
From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tue Oct 06 09:43:02 2009
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door Pin - Idea
Phil,
That's along the right track, but if you look at the nylon blocks you can see that the pin hole is drilled at a slight angle, I think in order to pull the pins inboard. Either that, or the angle is supposed to help compensate for the nonparallel fiberglass surface. Whichever, the blocks actually do see some load. Whether that's by design is debatable. Results suggest that they certainly do see a load, and aren't just acting as guides.
The bushing would increase the amount of contact area, which is needed. I see your bushing being in line with the pin, so it wouldn't supply any inward tension. Also, if the nylon block is supporting the bushing, I think it might rock around a bit and eventually tear up the block.
Metal guide blocks do essentially the same thing as the bushing, and also provide the inward tension.
Here's one of my blocks before it got upgraded.
[img]cid:ii_1242ab58e74d5ff4[/img]
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Good morning,
I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how they function.
This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted statements.
1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully extend in to the frame.
Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top and the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the bushing. (~5/8”)
Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame. The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material and into the door frame.
Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today – nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some structural support further up the door pins.
Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a couple of local machine shops.
Phil
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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Fifth item down:
http://www.aircraftersllc.com/products.htm
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | It would be nice to have a metal block the exact same size as the nylon one for retrofit.
The bullet and block would not retrofit to my door.....
grumpy
N184JM
|
Do not archive
[quote][b]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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3.4 degrees , page 45-15
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
[quote] If we could get that angle, we could machine that into the flange.
[b]
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Door Pin - Idea |
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I have scrap Delrin in the machine shop. This might work well for guide blocks. It is extremely strong stuff and wouldn't wear the metal pins.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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I bought my blocks and other things from Steve. Always had good service from him. Dan
[quote]
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get5/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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acsjohn
Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 15
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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Maybe a simple striker plate in the same plane as the nylon guide, mounted behind it, and extending a few millimeters outside the door frame.
Sure, you’d have to recess the door trailing edge slightly to allow the plate to protrude through the closed door, but it would serve a couple of purposes.
<![if !supportLists]>a) <![endif]>be an extra metal guide and solid holding point for the pin, prior to entering the frame and
<![if !supportLists]>b) <![endif]>be an effective barrier against the rear pin slipping to the outside of the frame. If you can’t close the door, you haven’t captured the guide.
John 40315
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Wednesday, 7 October 2009 2:43 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Door Pin - Idea
Phil,
That's along the right track, but if you look at the nylon blocks you can see that the pin hole is drilled at a slight angle, I think in order to pull the pins inboard. Either that, or the angle is supposed to help compensate for the nonparallel fiberglass surface. Whichever, the blocks actually do see some load. Whether that's by design is debatable. Results suggest that they certainly do see a load, and aren't just acting as guides.
The bushing would increase the amount of contact area, which is needed. I see your bushing being in line with the pin, so it wouldn't supply any inward tension. Also, if the nylon block is supporting the bushing, I think it might rock around a bit and eventually tear up the block.
Metal guide blocks do essentially the same thing as the bushing, and also provide the inward tension.
Here's one of my blocks before it got upgraded.
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CA472D.127B4790[/img]
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
Good morning,
I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how they function.
This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted statements.
1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully extend in to the frame.
Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top and the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the bushing. (~5/8”)
Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame. The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material and into the door frame.
Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today – nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some structural support further up the door pins.
Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a couple of local machine shops.
Phil
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
|
|
Love this idea. I was actually toying with striker plates myself - someone WILL attempt to close the door with the pins extended at some stage. Without a striker plate, paint damage is inevitable. The worst case I have seen is where the door pin has actually been forced between the fuse skin and the frame - not pretty.
cheers,
Ron
VH-XRM
flying on Oz
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Dunne
Sent: Wednesday, 7 October 2009 10:04 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door Pin - Idea
Maybe a simple striker plate in the same plane as the nylon guide, mounted behind it, and extending a few millimeters outside the door frame.
Sure, you’d have to recess the door trailing edge slightly to allow the plate to protrude through the closed door, but it would serve a couple of purposes.
<![if !supportLists]>a) <![endif]>be an extra metal guide and solid holding point for the pin, prior to entering the frame and
<![if !supportLists]>b) <![endif]>be an effective barrier against the rear pin slipping to the outside of the frame. If you can’t close the door, you haven’t captured the guide.
John 40315
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Wednesday, 7 October 2009 2:43 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Door Pin - Idea
Phil,
That's along the right track, but if you look at the nylon blocks you can see that the pin hole is drilled at a slight angle, I think in order to pull the pins inboard. Either that, or the angle is supposed to help compensate for the nonparallel fiberglass surface. Whichever, the blocks actually do see some load. Whether that's by design is debatable. Results suggest that they certainly do see a load, and aren't just acting as guides.
The bushing would increase the amount of contact area, which is needed. I see your bushing being in line with the pin, so it wouldn't supply any inward tension. Also, if the nylon block is supporting the bushing, I think it might rock around a bit and eventually tear up the block.
Metal guide blocks do essentially the same thing as the bushing, and also provide the inward tension.
Here's one of my blocks before it got upgraded.
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CA473B.D57EA5D0[/img]
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
Good morning,
I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how they function.
This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted statements.
1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully extend in to the frame.
Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top and the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the bushing. (~5/8”)
Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame. The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material and into the door frame.
Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today – nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some structural support further up the door pins.
Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a couple of local machine shops.
Phil
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robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
|
|
We ground down some of the fiberglass and epoxyed some S/S plates where the pins would hit if one were to close the door with the pins extended. We then had the painter mask off this area prior to paint. So far so good. I have also seen someone that just bent a piece of metal around the edge of the body held in place by the same screws that hold the nylon glide (as described below). I prefer the inset piece for better lines, fit & finish plus more aero.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGann, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:52 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door Pin - Idea
Love this idea. I was actually toying with striker plates myself - someone WILL attempt to close the door with the pins extended at some stage. Without a striker plate, paint damage is inevitable. The worst case I have seen is where the door pin has actually been forced between the fuse skin and the frame - not pretty.
cheers,
Ron
VH-XRM
flying on Oz
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Dunne
Sent: Wednesday, 7 October 2009 10:04 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door Pin - Idea
Maybe a simple striker plate in the same plane as the nylon guide, mounted behind it, and extending a few millimeters outside the door frame.
Sure, you’d have to recess the door trailing edge slightly to allow the plate to protrude through the closed door, but it would serve a couple of purposes.
<![if !supportLists]>a) <![endif]>be an extra metal guide and solid holding point for the pin, prior to entering the frame and
<![if !supportLists]>b) <![endif]>be an effective barrier against the rear pin slipping to the outside of the frame. If you can’t close the door, you haven’t captured the guide.
John 40315
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Wednesday, 7 October 2009 2:43 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Door Pin - Idea
Phil,
That's along the right track, but if you look at the nylon blocks you can see that the pin hole is drilled at a slight angle, I think in order to pull the pins inboard. Either that, or the angle is supposed to help compensate for the nonparallel fiberglass surface. Whichever, the blocks actually do see some load. Whether that's by design is debatable. Results suggest that they certainly do see a load, and aren't just acting as guides.
The bushing would increase the amount of contact area, which is needed. I see your bushing being in line with the pin, so it wouldn't supply any inward tension. Also, if the nylon block is supporting the bushing, I think it might rock around a bit and eventually tear up the block.
Metal guide blocks do essentially the same thing as the bushing, and also provide the inward tension.
Here's one of my blocks before it got upgraded.
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CA46BC.BFA3F5F0[/img]
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
Good morning,
I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how they function.
This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted statements.
1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully extend in to the frame.
Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top and the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the bushing. (~5/8”)
Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame. The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material and into the door frame.
Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today – nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some structural support further up the door pins.
Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a couple of local machine shops.
Phil
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