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Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

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skyguynca

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

Hey guys, I am no longer building the 701 and looking to sell my Homebuilt Help DVD’s. I have   

   

Metal Working 101  

Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft  

Building your Zenith 701 Horizontal Tail  

Building your Zenith 701 Wing Construction  

Building your Zenith 701 Rear Fuselage  

Building your Zenith 701 Forward Fuselage  

   

   

Cost $230 and I am looking to get atleast $140 for them. You save $90 and I will even overnight them to you at no charge. I can do paypal the quickest way or I can do check or money order but it must clear before I ship.  

   

David M.  

   

       [quote][b]

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

If no one wants the set, let me know I would like 3 of them.

kmccune ((at)) somtel. net



Kevin

_________________
â€œAlways do what you are afraid to do.â€
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

Jon(at)joncroke.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:18 am Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

[quote] ---

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

Yes, Jon put a lot of work into a product that has  little volume to make up with the trouble aqnd expense.   His DVD's  are tops and I just wish I'd discovered them earlier in my project.    

 I suppose if a guy bought them for a project and  never got working on the project and never used them, I be OK with selling them  or throwing them into the deal for the next guy.   But I doubt Jon  even breaks even on them.  More of a "labor of love!" 

 But its a free country - not judging anyone  here......

 [quote]   ---

skyguynca

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

Wow Jon, I did just buy the 750 DVD's from you  because I am not building the 701 that is why I am selling the 701 dvds. Your  comments seem to be just a bit on the rude, to very rude side. In the listing I  even said "I have decided not to build the 701" so since I am not going to use  the DVD's I got from you, they are new and cost me over $220 getting a little  back from unused DVD's is not a crime, and accusing me of putting your "one man  business" out of business for selling a unused set of DVD's? Recycling? No way  are they recycled since they are new and I am not building the plane, so your  comments are very rude and uncalled for. It really upsets me since I also just  purchased the 750 DVD's also...Oh I get it you are saying since they are new and  I am not going to use them I should just throw them away?????? Again NO WAY Jon,  calm down you are making plenty of money off me and I have in no way taken  anything away from your business. 

  

 I believe a public and sincere apology is due from  you.

  

 David M.

  

 [quote]   ---

skyguynca

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

I am sorry but I just can not get over the anger  from the blantent statement by Jon Croke saying I am killing his business, that  I am doing something wrong. From his statement I should take my brand new unused  DVS's and crush them since I am not going to use them, heck with that mentality  I should have just set the $220 on fire instead of even ordering the DVD's since  I never built the plane.

  

 How and any respectable businessman make such  statements openly. 

 Telling customers and the public that the selling  of a new and unused item is moraly wrong and causing him to loose money. That  statement is beyond lunacy. I had alot of respect for Jon and his help to  builders, but if selling something unused and new is what he considers morally  corrupt and wrong??? My respect for his work is gone. I feel publicly insulted  by his accusation and his rude comments. 

  

 I suggest Jon that you switch to decaf, see a  shrink and apologize for your rude and uncalled for accusation.

  

 David M.

 [quote]   ---

randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:11 am Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

I agree David.  

   

Not a very good salesmanship approach.  

   

I lost a little respect for you also Jon  

   

When my 701 is completed I assure you my DVDs will not collect dust on the shelf.  

   

Such is life Jon.  Many buy used cars, not the new showroom models.  This is the American way.  

   

Recouping a little on my investment and helping someone else is part of my plan.  

   

You told me once that you could not send me the template for my gear so I bought it.  It is sitting here until I finish my 701 but when I don’t need it I certainly will be passing it along.  

   

   

     

Randall J Hebert  

(Also a business owner)  

701 plans building  

N7701P Reserved  

  

       

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Mikesell

 Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 1:35 PM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale  

  

  

     

I am sorry but I just can not get over the anger from the blantent statement by Jon Croke saying I am killing his business, that I am doing something wrong. >From his statement I should take my brand new unused DVS's and crush them since I am not going to use them, heck with that mentality I should have just set the $220 on fire instead of even ordering the DVD's since I never built the plane.  

    

   

    

How and any respectable businessman make such statements openly.   

    

Telling customers and the public that the selling of a new and unused item is moraly wrong and causing him to loose money. That statement is beyond lunacy. I had alot of respect for Jon and his help to builders, but if selling something unused and new is what he considers morally corrupt and wrong??? My respect for his work is gone. I feel publicly insulted by his accusation and his rude comments.   

    

   

    

I suggest Jon that you switch to decaf, see a shrink and apologize for your rude and uncalled for accusation.  

    

   

    

David M.  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Jon Croke (Jon(at)joncroke.com)   

    

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:39 AM  

    

Subject: Re: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale  

    

   

     	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

   

    

Subject: Zenith701801-List: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale  

    

   

  

Hey guys, I am no longer building the 701 and looking to sell my Homebuilt Help DVD’s. I have   	
  

    

   

    

It is perfectly legal to buy and sell these videos second-hand, but I must state that both buyers and sellers of previously-purchased DVDs will not be welcome to get technical support from me.  

    

   

    

Business is business and we all need to save a buck by "recycling"  - but this is a sure method to put my one-man operation out of business.  

    

   

    

I appreciate every customer that makes a purchase from me -- thanks for your support.  

    

   

    

Jon  

    

HomebuiltHELP  

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		      

   

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       [quote][b]

Jon(at)joncroke.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

Wow, sorry I got you so upset, Dave!

  

 I never said there was anything "morally"  wrong with reselling.  How did you come to that conclusion?

  

 And I never used your name in my post.

  

 I simply said (and will say it again!) that   

  

 1) I cannot provide tech support for buyers/sellers  that dont purchase from me (isn't that fair?)

  

 2) This type of activity will/can put me out of  business -- that is a judgement on my part and not some accusation of morally  bad behavior on your part.

  

 I said that business is business and that means  that no one should feel sorry for me or my good/bad judgements.  I was  pointing out that while it is OK to buy/resell - both legally and morally - the  consequences for this are stated above.  Some bad for me, some for  others.  

  

 It is a pitch on my part to get more people to buy  new vs resold - you are free to choose. I appreciate all that use  these videos!

  

 BTW, I see from my records that it was 2  years ago that you bought that "new/unused" 701 set.... hmm...   

  

 I apologize for upsetting you with my point of  view, it was not my intention, sorry... but I kinda stand by my original points  made above.

  

 Jon (a big Ebay buyer/reseller  myself!)



 [quote]   ---

Iberplanes

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

Hi guys, 



This is not my call but I´d love to share my experience with you. I´m an IT Systems Analyst, I work in close relation with Cisco Systems and Microsoft, both as an instructor. I´ve spent 1500 €  this yeat on  trainning DVDs only for Cisco and 2100 € for Microsoft. Both companies on their contracts clearly say that i´m not allow to sell/re-sell or even lend those DVD. So I guess John is right on his comment. 

 

No flames here, just to tell you what´s the way two huge American companies are doing business these days.



Bye, 



Alberto Martin

www.iberplanes.es

Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

 

----------------------------------------------

Zodiac 601 XL Builder

Serial: 6-7011



Tail Kit: Finished

Wings: Not Started

Fuselage: Started

Engine: Jabiru 3300

  [quote][b]

_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

skyguynca

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

I am sure that is why you cancelled my 750 DVD  purchase, and you replied to my posting on here which has my name in it Jon. I  know now you are trying to act like it was just a harmless statement, but it  wasn't Jon. You was so ok with it you also cancelled my 750 DVD order, yeah  great salemanship and it speaks loads for your business Jon. Yep they were 2  years old, sitting on the shelf, because I just finished a B10 flying wing,  LePelican UL from Cananda restoration and almost finished with a Beaver RX  restoration, all shown on my website but yet no postings in the group of  building a 701, no FAA record of me building a 701, and no parts or a 701 sold  by me either because I haven't gotten around to building it yet. Since the 750  came out I would prefer to build it and the most amazing thing is I can sell my  unused 701 plans and Zenith won't care as long as I have not built a plane and I  havent. The only person who feels I should have just trashed the DVD's since I  did not use them was  you. Funny how you got your money then canceled my  order for the NEW 750 DVD's too.

  

 A good business man will admit he was wrong,  apologize and complete my order. Someone like you will now just try to save face  and probably now post false hoods to try and save face for doing something that  was wrong, rude and totally uncalled for.

  

 David M.

 [quote]   ---

skyguynca

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

I totally agree you with, you bought them and used  them. In this instance these DVD's have not been used and if Jon had called me  before posting he would have known that and if you had offered a discount on the  New 750 DVD's with trade in of the New 701 DVD's then all would be fine.  

  

 That is the problem, Jon decided to just be rude  and acusative instead of just emailing me or calling me, he has my phone number  it is on the order\payment form he received.

  

 David M.

 [quote]   ---

fgantt(at)texaviation.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

Hey GuysYou guys should take this off list the rest of us are not interested and I have read all the post and all Jon said was that it was okay to resale but he would not provide customer support the third party.  



Floyd

From: "David Mikesell" <skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com>Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:15 PMTo: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for salest1\:* {	BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui)}<![endif]-->    I am sure that is why you cancelled my 750 DVDpurchase, and you replied to my posting on here which has my name in it Jon. Iknow now you are trying to act like it was just a harmless statement, but itwasn't Jon. You was so ok with it you also cancelled my 750 DVD order, yeahgreat salemanship and it speaks loads for your business Jon. Yep they were 2years old, sitting on the shelf, because I just finished a B10 flying wing,LePelican UL from Cananda restoration and almost finished with a Beaver RXrestoration, all shown on my website but yet no postings in the group ofbuilding a 701, no FAA record of me building a 701, and no parts or a 701 soldby me either because I haven't gotten around to building it yet. Since the 750came out I would prefer to build it and the most amazing thing is I can sell myunused 701 plans and Zenith won't care as long as I have not built a plane and Ihavent. The only person who feels I should have just trashed the DVD's since Idid not use them was  you. Funny how you got your money then canceled myorder for the NEW 750 DVD's too.

 

A good business man will admit he was wrong,apologize and complete my order. Someone like you will now just try to save faceand probably now post false hoods to try and save face for doing something thatwas wrong, rude and totally uncalled for.

 

David M.

[quote]---

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

Wow!  Maybe we all should go to decaff, and/or  lay off whatever else we might happen to be on!   Hardly worth  fighting about, especially anger filled multiple posts, IMHO......

  Not trying to start a fight, but the way  I see it, a guy like Jon puts a lot of time, effort and some bucks to  produce these great videos to sell  to an extremely limited market of  buyers.  After all, how many people build 701's or 750's?   Not  many from a marketing viewpoint, and few of these already-few builders buy the  DVD's!  

 If we buy a set of DVD's, build one, then resell  the DVD's to other builders, any tiny amount of profit that Jon might have  would go down the tube.   Then the result would be that he goes  out of business, and does that help the next builder??    Nope! 

 I've never met Jon, and can only testify to his  excellent advice and tech support via phone and sure have no financial interest  in his tiny company, nor IMO would any other savvy  investor!     But believe me, the technical support is worth  every penny! 

 I personally never mind spending more money to keep  the American Entrepenuer alive and well, whether it be tools, (I tried to buy an  American made air compressor and could not find one, despite looking in all the  fine print for a week!) cars, airplanes, or anything else.   I supose  we could buy DVD's with made in China stamped on them if they were available (no  money in it so not likely to happen!) and likely no one would complain with  their resale!  The Chinese are well known for their total lack of respect  for copyrights and patents.   

 Also, if someone works and figures out a template  of something or a better gadget or way to do something, more power to him!   The INVENTOR/DEVELPER, IMO should reap any financial benefit, however  small.

 So I can understand his objecting to the resale of  these DVD's.   Sure its the American way to sell what we have paid  for, but we could easily kill the Goose that laid the Golden Egg by doing  so.     

 [quote]   ---

FLYDAD57(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

If anyone cares.....

  

     I have to side with David on  this.  What difference does it make who actually holds the DVD?   Realizing the fact that Jon should only offer assistance to ONE customer per  DVD, he certainly shouldn't shun the new holder of the DVD.  I think it a  very poor business practice to do so.  There should be some form of  transferrability to this type of product.

  

 To offer assistance to only those who buy NEW is being a  bit short sighted.  To bad.  I know I won't be buying and DVD's from  him.

  

 Sorry, Jon.

  

 Bob Taylor

 Wadsworth, Ohio

  

 [quote]   ---

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Homebuilt Help DVD's for the 701 for sale

I agree that software or things in digital storage media are difficult to deal with the used sale of. I also understand that this is a small potential market. Maybe should be a disclaimer so that everyone is on the same page at the time of purchase?



Kevin

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