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701 stalls

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Mike Hoffman

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 54

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:21 am Post subject: 701 stalls

This question is for the more experienced pilots.  Have you taken your 701 into a deep power off stall? Some aircraft will eventually enter a spin but others will continue to buffet, fall and rebuffed over and over (with the ball centered of course). What has been your experience? I am in the test flight stage of my airplane and donâ€™t want to get to deep in before I have a feel for what will happen next.

cscsail(at)gmavt.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: 701 stalls

Mine is very dossal and it doesn't really stall. No buffet of any kind, it 

just loses speed and the vertical speed increases --it remains controllable. 

Absolutely nothing violent, weird or unexpected.

Gordon

---

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:11 am Post subject: 701 stalls

Ditto with mine.

  

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX   CH701/912S/180hrs

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 10/18/2009 9:47:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  cscsail(at)gmavt.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Mine is    very dossal and it doesn't really stall. No buffet of any kind, it 

just    loses speed and the vertical speed increases --it remains controllable.    

Absolutely nothing violent, weird or  unexpected.

Gordon

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: 701 stalls

Ditto ditto with mine.  

I also notice that you still have some aileron authority without going into a spin; but I never tried using much aileron as this is a no-no in a stall.  

       

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of NYTerminat(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:08 AM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 701 stalls  

  

  

       

Ditto with mine.  

    

   

    

Bob Spudis  

    

N701ZX   CH701/912S/180hrs  

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

In a message dated 10/18/2009 9:47:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cscsail(at)gmavt.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

Mine is very dossal and it doesn't really stall. No buffet of any kind, it 

 just loses speed and the vertical speed increases --it remains controllable. 

 Absolutely nothing violent, weird or unexpected.

 Gordon  	
  

    

   

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bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject: 701 stalls

Mine does exactly the same as Gordon's.  Airspeed decreases, it responds 

sluggishly, but just sits there, no buffet, no nose drop and if you watch 

the VSI it increases to 3 - 400 fpm holding the stick all the way back.

I keep the ball centered, so I don't know if it would drop a wing with 

uncoordinated flight or not.  I'd expect it would a bit, but for what its 

worth the fellow in Oshkosh last year (from Cal) told the crowd it is almost 

unspinnable.   Its really safe, anyway!   If its performing and responding 

to control inputs normally, I wouldn't fear a deeper stall.  As JG calls it, 

"Nibble at it" at first, then work harder at it.

---

Mike Hoffman

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 54

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: 701 stalls

Thanks to all that replied, I hate surprises. I kept nibbling at it and couldn't find the end, thought I should ask before I got that surprise I wasn't looking for.



Mike H

jetboy

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: 701 stalls

I have not been able to get mine to power off stall. There is not enough elevator authority available at low speeds without the propwash present. It just rides down like the others said around 40 kts with elevator on the stop and -400fpm. 

with power on and high nose yes I have had rapid wingdrop which I'm not allowing to develop further like I was quite comfortable with spins in the C150A.



I'm actually quite fond of the no stall characteristics and one of the effects of fitting the micro vortex generator kits to the elevator might affect this, so I'm still deciding on that mod.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a

brothapig(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:19 am Post subject: 701 stalls

First off C I have no experience in a 701 C so take this for what you paid for it.

 I will C however C point you in the direction of an account I read C on the builder portion of the zenith website:

  

 http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/7-learn.html

 

 

[quote] From: bobkat(at)btinet.net

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 701 stalls

 Date: Sun C 18 Oct 2009 16:50:36 -0500

 

 --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "BokKat" <bobkat(at)btinet.net>

 

 Mine does exactly the same as Gordon's. Airspeed decreases C it responds 

 sluggishly C but just sits there C no buffet C no nose drop and if you watch 

 the VSI it increases to 3 - 400 fpm holding the stick all the way back.

 I keep the ball centered C so I don't know if it would drop a wing with 

 uncoordinated flight or not. I'd expect it would a bit C but for what its 

 worth the fellow in Oshkosh last year (from Cal) told the crowd it is almost 

 unspinnable. Its really safe C anyway! If its performing and responding 

 to control inputs normally C I wouldn't fear a deeper stall. As JG calls it C 

 "Nibble at it" at first C then work harder at it.

 ---

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: 701 stalls

Thanks Ryan,   

This is good stuff to keep in mind when we start to get too cocky.  

Les  

       

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Vechinski

 Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:14 AM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: 701 stalls  

  

  

   

First off, I have no experience in a 701, so take this for what you paid for it.

 I will, however, point you in the direction of an account I read, on the builder portion of the zenith website:

  

 http://www.zenithair.com/bldr/7-learn.html

 

  

 > From: bobkat(at)btinet.net

 > To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 > Subject: Re: 701 stalls

 > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:50:36 -0500

 > 

 > --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "BokKat" <bobkat(at)btinet.net>

 > 

 > Mine does exactly the same as Gordon's. Airspeed decreases, it responds 

 > sluggishly, but just sits there, no buffet, no nose drop and if you watch 

 > the VSI it increases to 3 - 400 fpm holding the stick all the way back.

 > I keep the ball centered, so I don't know if it would drop a wing with 

 > uncoordinated flight or not. I'd expect it would a bit, but for what its 

 > worth the fellow in Oshkosh last year (from Cal) told the crowd it is almost 

 > unspinnable. Its really safe, anyway! If its performing and responding 

 > to control inputs normally, I wouldn't fear a deeper stall. As JG calls it, 

 > "Nibble at it" at first, then work harder at it.

 > ---

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: 701 stalls

I agree.  Sounds like he entered an  accererated stall while doing a sort of 'low altitude  Chandelle!"    I admit I haven't even pushed these much at high  altitude because the angle of attack is so great I get uncomfortable.  But  a straight ahead power on or power  off stall is pretty docile.   

 [quote]   ---

vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: 701 stalls

Gday All,



I suppose that I should comment here, having done some hundreds upon hundreds of stalls and slow maneuvers in 701 and Savannah aircraft.  Some with slats and many more with VGs, always watching for any unpleasant surprises.   



I've tried all sorts of stalls, even with the ball way off-center, and everything else wrong that I could think of.  Even if one wing drops, it's just a matter of easing the stick and some opposite rudder, and it's flying again.  This wing is so steady and dependable, and the 'stall' is really just an increasing 'mush'.  I've never ever felt like it was dropping into a spin.  It's actually a pleasant experience, and really good practice, to try idle and low power stalls at altitude - gives a good 'feel' for the aircraft at low speed. 



The only way I've found an alarming wing drop is with full flaps on the Savannah (Zenith eliminated that setting many years ago, for good reason...)  With that full flap, and a sudden large aileron input, it's possible to get a rapid wing drop opposite to the aileron input.    The down-going aileron has stalled, causing a loss of lift and large increase in drag, pulling that wing back and down.  It's pretty alarming, but once again, it's only a matter of centering and easing the stick and  the plane is flying again.  I've never felt like it was entering a real spin.  

 



The only other maneuver that I have found alarming, and is much more likely to encounter in real life, is wing drop due to torque roll from a 100hp Rotax driving a large geared prop at full power.  At very slow speed there's just not enough aerodynamic force from the ailerons to counteract all that torque force.  Lifting off at too slow an airspeed and straight into a climb that keeps the airspeed low, can start an increasing roll that is made worse by countering with aileron.  I know of four 701's that have come to grief just this way......  If you must lift off very slow then be ready with lots of rudder to prevent the roll from starting and hold the aircraft down in ground effect so it can accelerate rapidly.

 



For recent detailed test results on these effects have a look at 

 http://www.stolspeed.com/flight-testing-savannah



 

Even with VGs on the elevator, the stall is still just an increasing mush at a higher and higher angle of attack and thus lower airspeed.  But with slats, the drag increases enormously as the angle of attack increases, so the airspeed then drops rapidly, and the aircraft will drop suddenly due to no lift at that nil speed.  That's great for a short landing if you're one foot above the ground, but just don't let it happen when you're ten feet up......  

 



Please don't be afraid of practicing stalls in your STOL aircraft.  You  need to have a good familiar feel of the handling at those speeds if you're really going to do any STOL Ops.

 



It's a heck of a lot of fun - enjoy it!



 

JG







   

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Mike Hoffman <mhoffman9(at)tampabay.rr.com (mhoffman9(at)tampabay.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9(at)tampabay.rr.com (mhoffman9(at)tampabay.rr.com)>

     

 Thanks to all that replied, I hate surprises.

 

 Mike H

 

 

 

 

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