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CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

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mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

I have a CH601XL with a Jabiru 3300 engine. While adjustments are still being made, to date, getting above 125 MPH CAS has been very difficult and getting 120 knots (138 MPH) has been out of sight. While I do not have wheel pants on it yet, I did expect somewhat better. I am wondering what others with this combination have observed. 

The airspeed indicator has been carefully calibrated so that is not a factor.

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

Stephen Smith

Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Hello Mark,



My 601 XL with a Jabiru 3300 and the carbon-fiber Sensenich prop is good for an honest 140 MPH.  It takes a minute or so to reach that speed.  I don’t do this anymore because it’s too hard on the engine and fuel consumption is high (10 gallons per hour or so).



My plane had performance problems early on.  They all had to do with the engine air intake system.  The primary problem was the use of scat tube between the airbox and the Bing carburetor.  When I got rid of the scat tube I picked up a noticeable amount of power.



What is your top RPM when you hit the wall? Presumably you would want the engine turning close to red-line where it produces the most power.  Again, I don’t do this to my engine anymore.  I have lowered the red-line to 3,050 and the yellow to 2,950 after getting a good look at the rod bearings at 600 hours and noticing they were quite worn.



Steve

_________________
Steve Smith
N601WF
Zenair Zodiac XL
Jabiru 3300
600+ hours
Sensenich composite - ground adjustable

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Steve,

My static WOT RPM is 2800 with the present prop setting. In flight, I get up to 3100 RPM but keep it at or below 2800 for level flight.



I expected that getting to near 140 MPH was going to take most of t he available power. At least from your experience it is possible. I don't expect to actually operate in that range too often but I would like to know what the airframe is reasonably capable of.

Do you have wheel pants? External antennas?

At this time I don't have wheel pants, only one antenna, the ELT, and no entry step. I have not cleaned up any of the gaps around the stabilizer and have done nothing about the gaps on the control surfaces.

The engine is just finishing its "run in" period during which I tried to keep power high but not above 75% except for climb.



I have given up on the Bing carb. I never got it to operate well at full throttle. Jabiru's statement was that the problem was caused by the right angle bend in the intake. Given that this bend was inherent in the Jabiru firewall forward kit, I though this was not a good response. I also never liked a number of things about the Bing, I never got the feeling it was a real aircraft device.

Did you have to replace engine parts or was your observation at 600 hours just an inspection? Did you measure how much wear there was on the bearings?

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

Stephen Smith

Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Mark,



My plane does have wheel pants.  I have a COM and ELT external antennas.  I have a entry step.



How do you like your TBI?  My TBI will be here in 3 days.



At 600 hours I did a full top-end.  More information can be found on my blogs on the Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers site.



http://www.zenith.aero/profile/StephenRSmith



Steve

_________________
Steve Smith
N601WF
Zenair Zodiac XL
Jabiru 3300
600+ hours
Sensenich composite - ground adjustable

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:31 am Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Steve,

  I just have three hours on the TBI 40. So far, it has been a significant improvement over the Bing but one does not have to go far. It allows proper full throttle operation while the Bing was unpredictable. 

  There is one issue. As with all carbs, getting the identical mixture to all cylinders is always a problem. The TBI 40 sprays the fuel from a single bar in the center of the carb. It sprays it to one side. With the very short distance between the carb and cylinders 5,6, one gets varying mixtures especially to cylinder 5.

  This afternoon, I will be trying the first fix I have in mind to solve this. If that does not work, I have a more complex plan that is "almost" guarantied to work.

  When I find something that works, I will post it. 

  Still, the TBI 40 works as well as any carb I have ever used on Lycomings. They are not perfect but they do work. The ideal solution would have been for Jabiru to have provided pre drilled ports for fuel injectors. Then we could do this the right way.

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

Stephen Smith

Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Mark,



I was planning to mount the TBI so the slide goes up and down up being open, down being closed.  I was hoping this would eliminate left to right distribution issues.



Which way did you mount your TBI?  Would you share pictures?



Steve

_________________
Steve Smith
N601WF
Zenair Zodiac XL
Jabiru 3300
600+ hours
Sensenich composite - ground adjustable

vvkidd(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Steve:



What did you use to replace the scat tube between the air fiter and carb?



Victor Kidd

Charleston, WV, CRW

N922VK



--

Stephen Smith

Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Hello Victor,



I used radiator hose.  NAPA part number 7905 (I think).



Here is a blog I wrote which tells a bit more.



http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/jabiru-3300-bing-carburetor



Steve

_________________
Steve Smith
N601WF
Zenair Zodiac XL
Jabiru 3300
600+ hours
Sensenich composite - ground adjustable

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Steven

I have the TBI 40 mounted so the throttle rod is on the bottom. There was no room on the top. It did not appear there was a choice.  I also added a lever arm to increase the throttle knob movement and allow for duel throttles. I am still working on making the mixture more even but I do have pictures of the present installation and will fetch them next time I am at the hanger within the next couple of days.

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Steve,

I have posted a number of pictures of the TBI 40 in my Jabiru 3300 at photo.hubbles.com, see the N708HU album and then at the end are some as yet unlabeled pictures of the installation.

This shows a lever to increase the throttle throw and allow a duel throttle arrangement.

At this time I have tested it with the ring shown in picture 668 between the carb and the engine. This makes all but cylinder 6 behave well. That one has too high a EGT during WOT. I will try the ring in 669 next.

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

You guys with the TBI might want to read about the Tornado Fuel Saver.  Mark Langford uses one and has found it to help balance out the temps on his Corvair motor.  Anyway it's noted at the bottom of this page:



http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/intake.html

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:45 am Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

The web page for the Tornado shows it before the carb. With the Bing this would probably be a big problem as the Bing likes a smooth air flow. The TBI 40 may tolerate it but putting something like this after the carb would seem to be much more desirable. In the 3300 design, there is very little room to do this but that is what I am working on.



Of course, the Tornado claim of doing anything with today's electronic fuel injected auto engines seems unlikely. All the fuel mixing takes place right at the intake valve.



The Tornado claims to fit in airways between 2.5 and 3.75 inch dia. The outlet side of the carb is about 1.6 inch dia. It might still be useful to start with this thing and modify it to fit.



One thing I did find is that simply making the air rotate does not help, it rotates some very lean air into cylinder 6 although it helps with the others. 



It would be really nice if the manufacturer (Rotac or Jabiru) would do this right and design the required coupling on a test stand.

_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

Stephen Smith

Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:18 am Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

Mark,



Thanks for the pictures.  It is very helpful to see your fabrication.  Lucky for me I have no interest in dual throttle cables.  The extra friction looks like a big negative.



Steve

_________________
Steve Smith
N601WF
Zenair Zodiac XL
Jabiru 3300
600+ hours
Sensenich composite - ground adjustable

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: CH601XL and Jabiru 3300 Performance

 	  mhubel wrote: 	
		  The Tornado claims to fit in airways between 2.5 and 3.75 inch dia. The outlet side of the carb is about 1.6 inch dia. It might still be useful to start with this thing and modify it to fit.



One thing I did find is that simply making the air rotate does not help, it rotates some very lean air into cylinder 6 although it helps with the others. 

	




Mark,  



I'm pretty sure Mark Langford placed his Tornado downstream of his Ellison TBI.

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