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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:39 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Hi Everyone,



So far I have had the luck that I never needed any eye correction.

However with an age of 45 I'm finding myself getting more and more

troubles to focus nearby, and for working on small parts (electronics)

I'm already using reading glasses.

I made the unfortunate discovery that the instrument panel of the Europa

is becoming quite close to the range where I can focus comfortably, and

that alternating frequently between looking outside and on the

instrument panel is no longer comfortable for my eyes. 

There must be more people on this forum with similar problems. How does

one solve this? What I was thinking about is special "flying

sun-glasses" with a sharp change-over exactly at the angle where the

glareshield is in my vision, with everything below that with some mild

"plus" correction. This way alternating between looking outside and on

the instrument should go with minimal changes in focal efforts for my

eyes. My optometrist is happy to construct special sun glasses if I

measure the exact angle where the division between outside and

instrument panel is, but is "my" solution workable in practice? I am

aware that there are glasses with a gradual change-over from far to

near, but in the Europa there is no gradual change over, it is either

focus on "infinity" or focus on "instrument panel" and nothing in

between (unless something disasterous is about to happen).

I guess I'm not the first one thinking about this problem. How do other

people solve this? Or am I just spoiled, being used sofar to superb

vision without any corrections?

Wearing "just" reading glasses for looking at instruments and maps does

not work as I like to wear sun glasses as well, so it should be all

together in one device.

I would love to hear other peoples solutions!



Frans

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Frans, You are certainly not the first to experience this problem! When 

slightly older than you I invested in off the shelf sunglasses with +2 

inserts at the bottom, which worked perfectly for map & instrument reading. 

As time went on (ie the wrong side of 60), things got to the point where I 

needed about +1 for distance vision, so now I have bifocal ordinary specs & 

sun specs with prescription distance lens & extra +2 reading bits. The 

reading bits are deliberately relatively low on the main lens & with a 

horizontal upper margin, (as opposed to a curved upper margin which is more 

common on bifocal specs). These work perfectly in the plane, giving all 

outside vision unaffected by the reading bits, and panel vision OK on just 

moving eyes rather than head.  Best of luck, David Joyce, G-XSDJ

---

nfrance(at)avnet.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:53 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Frans,



I have just gone down this same route, after struggling for the last two 

years.

I have bought two pairs of varifocals, one clear, and one tinted for sunny 

flying.

The bottom portion is equivalent to  a very weak pair of reading glasses, 

and the top is pretty much clear, there is a gradual change from one to the 

other.

It was the best decision I have ever made, I wish I'd done it sooner, no 

more struggling to read  frequencies on the map, or the instrument panel, 

but a quick glance up out of the window is still in perfect focus.



Neil France.



---

christoph.both(at)acadiau
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Get 3 stage progressive lenses - they really work, close reading the map, mid to read the instrument panel and far to see everything outside, all in a consistent sharp transition!

Christoph Both

#223

Wolfville, Nova Scotia 

Canada



--

eckel1(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:03 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

I also find the tri-focals work well. The bottom is for reading distance, 

the middle is for arms length, about where

an instrument panel is and the top is distance.  If you get sun glasses have 

the tint progress from dark on top

to clear on the bottom, this way you can read your charts and see things 

that are in a darker part of the cockpit.



John Eckel

---

Gary.Leinberger(at)miller
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

I use bi-focals with the reading part set to 30 inches - which is also great for computers (I have a part of just reading glasses, set at 30 inches for work on the computer - it says neck strain). I can easily read the 1 inch gauges on the Mooney I fly now. In the Mooney I have a Garmin 530 so don't need to read maps so often  (I generally fly IFR). In my Europa I am planning on a Grand Rapids HX which has a moving map. When I need to read a map, I can see it with my bi=focal part except for very crowded parts of the map - then need to flip my glasses up. Tri-focals seems a good idea but since I really don't need reading glasses for up close (12 inches or so) I stick with bi-focals. 

Gary Leinberger

A237

________________________________________

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christoph Both [christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca]

Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:02 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Flying and reading glasses?






Get 3 stage progressive lenses - they really work, close reading the map, mid to read the instrument panel and far to see everything outside, all in a consistent sharp transition!

Christoph Both

#223

Wolfville, Nova Scotia

Canada



--

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Frans,

I believe you are over complicating it. Not always do I want to wear 

sunglasses so I wear my regular bifocals then I buy those ugly cover 

the glasses sunglasses... Walmart. Just pop them on or off while 

flying, depending on conditions needed. In your case you can buy those 

over the counter half a lens reading glasses at strengths that are a 

compromise for reading maps and bringing your panel into view. Then 

cover them with the sunglasses that make you look like a florida 

retiree. ;o)

Regards,

Jeff R.

A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush

On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:38 AM, Frans Veldman wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.nl>



 Hi Everyone,



 So far I have had the luck that I never needed any eye correction.

 However with an age of 45 I'm finding myself getting more and more

 troubles to focus nearby, and for working on small parts (electronics)

 I'm already using reading glasses.

 I made the unfortunate discovery that the instrument panel of the 

 Europa

 is becoming quite close to the range where I can focus comfortably, and

 that alternating frequently between looking outside and on the

 instrument panel is no longer comfortable for my eyes. 

 There must be more people on this forum with similar problems. How does

 one solve this? What I was thinking about is special "flying

 sun-glasses" with a sharp change-over exactly at the angle where the

 glareshield is in my vision, with everything below that with some mild

 "plus" correction. This way alternating between looking outside and on

 the instrument should go with minimal changes in focal efforts for my

 eyes. My optometrist is happy to construct special sun glasses if I

 measure the exact angle where the division between outside and

 instrument panel is, but is "my" solution workable in practice? I am

 aware that there are glasses with a gradual change-over from far to

 near, but in the Europa there is no gradual change over, it is either

 focus on "infinity" or focus on "instrument panel" and nothing in

 between (unless something disasterous is about to happen).

 I guess I'm not the first one thinking about this problem. How do other

 people solve this? Or am I just spoiled, being used sofar to superb

 vision without any corrections?

 Wearing "just" reading glasses for looking at instruments and maps does

 not work as I like to wear sun glasses as well, so it should be all

 together in one device.

 I would love to hear other peoples solutions!



 Frans

loboloda(at)execulink.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

I'll second this. It took me a while to get used to progressive  

lenses, but now I'm not aware that I'm wearing them.

They are great for flying, driving, golfing or whatever.



Dave C-FBZI

On 23-Oct-09, at 8:02 AM, Christoph Both wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca>



 Get 3 stage progressive lenses - they really work, close reading  

 the map, mid to read the instrument panel and far to see everything  

 outside, all in a consistent sharp transition!

 Christoph Both

 #223

 Wolfville, Nova Scotia

 Canada

frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

JEFF ROBERTS wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Frans,

 I believe you are over complicating it. 


	


Love to hear that, but I'm not sure if I understand fully what you mean.



 	  Quote: 	
		   so I wear my regular bifocals then I buy those ugly cover the


	


Yes, but I don't have regular bifocals. My "distance" vision is OK.



 	  Quote: 	
		   In your case you can buy those over the

 counter half a lens reading glasses at strengths that are a compromise

 for reading maps and bringing your panel into view. Then cover them with

 the sunglasses that make you look like a florida retiree. ;o)


	


I'm not sure what you mean. I don't need the sunglasses for the map

reading part, but for the distance viewing part, which isn't there if I

use over the counter half a lens reading glasses. Or do you mean that I

should glue the sun glas part on the upper edge of the reading glasses?

That could be a fragile construction but nevertheless work, but might

not be what you mean.



What I need is glasses with a neutral upper part (although it could be

nice if they would incorporate my -0.25 cylinder) and a +1 part for the

instrument panel, fully colored by itself or by a sun glas cover. The

upper part of the glasses are indeed just there for the sun glasses

part. For some reason, it seems to be difficult to get something like

that. They either try to sell me a $$$ varifocal thing, with a

transition I think I don't need at all (and even don't have any place

for: the visual distance between the ASI (+1) and the runway (neutral)

is very small, so should be the transition area) or they tell me that it

is not available for these small differences in strength.



Frans

frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Neil France wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Frans,

 

 I have just gone down this same route, after struggling for the last two

 years.

 I have bought two pairs of varifocals, one clear, and one tinted for

 sunny flying.

 The bottom portion is equivalent to  a very weak pair of reading

 glasses, and the top is pretty much clear, there is a gradual change

 from one to the other.


	


I was wondering about that: the distance in viewing angle between the

ASI and runway is very small, and I need +1 for reading the ASI, and

neutral for seeing the runway. There is hardly any room here for the

transition area... So, do you move your head when alternating between

the instruments or runway, or is the transition area indeed very small?



Frans

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:11 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

I'm not so keen on progressive lenses.  I had some made a few years back and 

took them up for a flight.  Not being very tall I have to stretch my neck to 

see over the glare shield.  Everything went fine until I got into the 

landing flare.  As the nose of the plane went up to flare, I had to tip my 

head back to see straight ahead.  In so doing I was now looking through the 

bottom of the lenses.......the "reading/magnifying" portion, which caused 

everything to look blurry and fuzzy  on the runway.  Needless to say my 

landing was more of an arrival than a landing.  Thankfully I didn't break 

anything.  I took the glasses and threw them in the trash can.



Garry Stout, N4220S



---

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

On Oct 23, 2009, at 12:11 PM, Frans Veldman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I'm not sure what you mean. I don't need the sunglasses for the map

 reading part, but for the distance viewing part, which isn't there if I

 use over the counter half a lens reading glasses. Or do you mean that I

 should glue the sun glas part on the upper edge of the reading glasses?

 That could be a fragile construction but nevertheless work, but might

 not be what you mean.


	


What I meant was on some days I don't need sun glasses but I always 

need my glasses with the bifocal in them. In your case your eyes are 

fine but you need reading glasses. So get the thin bifocal glasses. You 

know the kind that are like a half glass and you look out over them for 

the far vision. Then buy the the sunglasses that fit over regular 

glasses like I use. You can buy them with the lower portion clear. So 

you look down and you see thru your reading glasses you look up and you 

see thru the sunglasses only. My humor attempt was that all the older 

retired people wear these. They're the big ugly sunglasses that fit 

over regular glasses, but I figure who can see me at 10K feet? 

Truthfully I wear mine while I drive as well. My wife hates them so she 

reminds me that I'm turning into one of those retirees. ;o(  Now if I 

could just retire. )

Sorry for the hard to understand text.

Jeff R.

A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush

 	  Quote:

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Frans Veldman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I was wondering about that: the distance in viewing angle between the

 ASI and runway is very small, and I need +1 for reading the ASI, and

 neutral for seeing the runway. There is hardly any room here for the

 transition area... So, do you move your head when alternating between

 the instruments or runway, or is the transition area indeed very small?



 Frans

   

Frans
	


I wouldn't think you need to look at the instruments during the landing 

flare. Only thing that you need to see is the far end of the runway. 

Airspeed should have been stabilized way back on the approach, so it 

should not change until you start the flare, then its academic. You will 

be feeling for the ground with the tail wheel at that point and 

concentrating on keeping it straight after that. I find I don't have the 

mental capacity to think of much else at this stage of the landing. Are 

you tri gear? still to be certain the aft wheels touch first. Ground 

effect will cause a trim change nose down.

Graham

Rowland_Carson

Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Cheltenham, England

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

At 2009-10-23 14:11 -0400 Garry wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm not so keen on progressive lenses.  I had some made a few years 

back and took them up for a flight.  Not being very tall I have to 

stretch my neck to see over the glare shield.  Everything went fine 

until I got into the landing flare.  As the nose of the plane went 

up to flare, I had to tip my head back to see straight ahead.  In so 

doing I was now looking through the bottom of the lenses.......the 

"reading/magnifying" portion, which caused everything to look blurry 

and fuzzy  on the runway


	


Garry - I am not very tall and now wear bifocals, and I find the same 

problem. I have learned to bring booster cushions when I hire an 

aircraft, and even more so when I fly in someohe else's Europa. 

Getting my head close up to the roof makes a BIG difference in what I 

can usefully see.



<hobbyhorse>

I've never liked the idea of varifocals. I can't see how they can 

make a continuous change of the spherical component down the lens 

without introducing an unwanted cylindrical component.

</hobbyhorse>



regards



Rowland

-- 

| Rowland Carson  LAA #16532    http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/

| 1300 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI  e-mail <rowil(at)clara.net>

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

On Oct 23, 2009, at 11:18 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   My wife hates them so she reminds me that I'm turning into one of  

 those retirees. ;o(


	


Now now Jeff...you're gettin onto shaky ground...)



do not archive

frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Graham Singleton wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Frans Veldman wrote:

> I was wondering about that: the distance in viewing angle between the

> ASI and runway is very small, and I need +1 for reading the ASI, and

> neutral for seeing the runway. There is hardly any room here for the

> transition area... So, do you move your head when alternating between

> the instruments or runway, or is the transition area indeed very small?

 	  Quote: 	
		   I wouldn't think you need to look at the instruments during the landing

 flare.

I was not talking about the landing flare, but the approach. If you look

over the nose of the airplane, the viewing angle is not very different

to reading the ASI, which is normally in the top of the panel. So that's

why I wonder where the transition area of a varifocal should be. I agree

that in the flare portion of the landing the whole problem ceases to exist.

I'm not flying the Europa yet, but regulary fly in a Cessna which has

the instrument panel somewhat further away. The Europa is almost

finished, and sitting in the airplane and fiddling with some instruments

and imitating some portions of a flight (without making the sound  )

I found out that changing focus between inside and outside is a bit slow

and uncomfortable. Never had any experience with glasses before, so

wondering what the best solution would be.

Frans

rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

OK folks, I've been reading all the replies in re: glasses for near and far vision correction but no one has yet to mention the simplest and by far the cheapest solution.  Yup, that would be contact lenses.  Not only do you get to have normal peripheral vision which you don't have with glasses of any kind, and especially with progressives, but you can get one eye corrected for near and one eye corrected for distance (aka, mono-vision).  For us older folks, that also helps with a quick transition from far to near or vice versa since older eye muscles take longer to accommodate the change. You also can choose from a wide variety of sunglasses that are far cheaper than prescription sunglasses.



Now, the FAA will tell you that you can't fly with mono-vision (actually you can and still be legal but only if your vision has been surgically corrected, but not with contact lenses - go figure!) because the FAA apparently does not understand that at any distance further than about arm's length, two eyes are not needed for perfectly normal depth perception (ask your eye doc).  I learned to fly (before the FAA changed the rules) with mono-vision so I know it does not affect depth perception as required for landing (or anything else).  Of course I need a spare lens for the "near" eye (which in my case is does not require any correction for near vision) when I take my Class 3 Medical so I can pass the "two eyes for distance and two eyes for near" vision test, albeit with a pair of "readers" for near vision.

Best regards,



Rob Housman

Irvine, CA 

Europa XS Tri-Gear

A070

Airframe complete



--

nfrance(at)avnet.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Frans, I don't seem to move my head at all, so, the transition area must be 

quite small, it's hard to summarise really, what works for one may be 

different for another I suppose. Sorry to be vague, but I was surprised how 

easy it was to remedy my situation.



Neil.



 	  Quote: 	
		   I was wondering about that: the distance in viewing angle between the

 ASI and runway is very small, and I need +1 for reading the ASI, and

 neutral for seeing the runway. There is hardly any room here for the

 transition area... So, do you move your head when alternating between

 the instruments or runway, or is the transition area indeed very small?



 Frans



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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Neil France wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Frans, I don't seem to move my head at all, so, the transition area must

 be quite small, it's hard to summarise really, what works for one may be

 different for another I suppose. Sorry to be vague, but I was surprised

 how easy it was to remedy my situation.


	


Thanks! I have no experience whatsoever, so that's why I'm asking. The

transition area appears to be small indeed.

Opinions about the applicability of varifocal seem to differ a bit, as

usual of course!

I can probably hold off my decision for a while and take some time to

make up my mind.



Frans

frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: Flying and reading glasses?

Rob Housman wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   because the FAA apparently does not understand that at any distance

 further than about arm's length, two eyes are not needed for

 perfectly normal depth perception (ask your eye doc).


	


I beg to differ. Have tried it a couple of times, driving a car with one

eye closed. It feels really unsafe, I will loose *all* depth perception.

Can't drive a car with that, let alone flying an airplane. Yet of course

there are plenty of people able to do it, but a key factor seems to be

whether they have grown up with mono-vision or not.



Apart from this, if this method works, it certainly has some good points

as you mention.



Frans

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