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davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal
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 Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: Minimum Edge Distance |
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Recently I e-mailed some questions to Nick regarding edge distances. In his
response, he included a pdf file labeled CS #101. Based on his e-mail, it
sounds like this may be an excerpt from a complete construction manual that
will be coming out later in the summer. Anyway, when I looked at this page
it showed the minimum edge distance formula as 1.5d. In the material we
received at our workshop, the minimum edge distance formula was represented
as 2d. I asked Nick in a follow-up e-mail which formula was correct, and he
responded that 1.5d is correct. Can anyone shed any additonal light on this
discrepancy for me?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL
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paulrod36(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: Minimum Edge Distance |
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According to my old copy of 43.13 Para 99d(1) calls for edge distance of not
less than 2D, and spacing of not less than 3D. They may have changed it
since 1972.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
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dredmoody(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: Minimum Edge Distance |
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Hi Dave,
Not sure what's up with this but my information received with the rudder
and again with the complete kit (arrived here 15MAR06 so I think it was
current) is that the ideal edge distance is three times the hole diameter.
In other words, for a 1/8" rivet: 1/8" equals 0.125" which multiplied times
3 equals 0.375" . Multiply that by 25.4 mm per inch to get an ideal edge
distance of 9.525 mm . That's why we were instructed to use 10.0 mm for
the rivet line where it was feasible. In a tight area, we were told that 7.5
mm was adequate: in other words, about 2.5 x the diameter is the minimum
edge distance. I have no idea why they would suddenly switch to a guideline
of 1.5 x d . You might want to review this with and ask why it has changed
because this does indeed represent a significant recent change in technique.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL working on tail
Rudder workshop (8-9DEC05 still fresh in memory)
Subject: Minimum Edge Distance
| Quote: |
<davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net>
Recently I e-mailed some questions to Nick regarding edge distances. In
his
response, he included a pdf file labeled CS #101. Based on his e-mail, it
sounds like this may be an excerpt from a complete construction manual
that
will be coming out later in the summer. Anyway, when I looked at this
page
it showed the minimum edge distance formula as 1.5d. In the material we
received at our workshop, the minimum edge distance formula was
represented
as 2d. I asked Nick in a follow-up e-mail which formula was correct, and
he
responded that 1.5d is correct. Can anyone shed any additonal light on
this
discrepancy for me?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL
|
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daveaustin2(at)sprint.ca
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: Minimum Edge Distance |
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Is think that the 1.5 times diameter is from the edge of the hole, the 2 x
diameter is from the centre of the hole. That's been my understanding for
both my a/c.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
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dredmoody(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: Minimum Edge Distance |
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Measuring from the edge of the hole is not very useful in the construction
process unless you want to draw the line, then guess where to spot the drill
bit tip to have the edge touch the line. Distance from the edge of the hole
sounds like the stuff a DAR might use to evaluate the quality of the
construction. While building, it is more appropriate to work on the line
which translates to distance from the center of the hole to the edge. That's
how my instructions were written and it makes sense from the builder's
prospective.
Ed Moody II
| Quote: |
Is think that the 1.5 times diameter is from the edge of the hole, the 2 x
diameter is from the centre of the hole. That's been my understanding for
both my a/c.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
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grs-pms(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: Minimum edge distance |
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Way back in the cold war days, when I was designing sheet metal structure at McDonnell Aircraft, the standard edge distance was 2D plus .06 inch (.31 inch for a 1/8 rivet, just under 8mm). If we didn't put a dimension on the rivet pattern, that edge distance was assumed and gave the mechanics some leeway in locating the hole. 2D was adequate distance, but we had to show that dimension on the drawing. In many cases, the stress analysts would approve 1.5D. These were the standards used on the F4 and F101 fighters.
These edge distances were for solid (bucked) rivets, not pulled rivets such as the Avex rivets we are using. Usually the designer tries to balance the shear strength of the fastener with the shear tearout strength of the sheet, but other factors sometimes enter in. Avex rivets have a lower shear strength than solid AN rivets, and 6061-T6 is not as strong as the 2024-T3 used for those military airplanes. For my own 601, I am assuming that 2D is adequate.
George Swinford
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