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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25858
Location: Livermore CA USA
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 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Greetings Listers,
I'm looking over this cooling blast tube kit from Van's (DUCT CBT-5/ and deciding what needs cooling and what doesn't. I'm guessing the Slick Mags do. The directions are pretty clear on how to mount the tube in the baffle, but don't mention at all where to shoot the air in around the mag. Is just in the general vacineity good enough, or is there a little hole in the mag that wants fresh air?
I've also got the PlanePower 60amp alternator that Van's sells. The instruction booklet that comes with it brags about how, because of its design, it runs much cooler that traditional automobile conversions do. Okay, great. But does that mean that it still needs a blast tube off the front baffle for cooling? If so, same question on the mags. Where's a good place to stick the cool air on the alternator?
Thanks in advance for the feedback,
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25858
Location: Livermore CA USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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At 07:56 PM 10/18/2009 Sunday, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Greetings Listers,
I'm looking over this cooling blast tube kit from Van's (DUCT CBT-5/ and deciding what needs cooling and what doesn't. I'm guessing the Slick Mags do. The directions are pretty clear on how to mount the tube in the baffle, but don't mention at all where to shoot the air in around the mag. Is just in the general vacineity good enough, or is there a little hole in the mag that wants fresh air?
I've also got the PlanePower 60amp alternator that Van's sells. The instruction booklet that comes with it brags about how, because of its design, it runs much cooler that traditional automobile conversions do. Okay, great. But does that mean that it still needs a blast tube off the front baffle for cooling? If so, same question on the mags. Where's a good place to stick the cool air on the alternator?
Thanks in advance for the feedback,
Matt Dralle
|
I never got any responses to this post, so I forged ahead. The tubes came out very nice. I ran a tube to the top of each mag about 1" above the surface.
I opted to run a duct to the back of the primary 60a alternator. I opted *not* to run a duct to the 20a secondary alternator figuring that it would be off most of the time and didn't warrant the reduction in baffle chamber pressure by drilling yet another hole.
I did opt to run a duct to the GPS antenna enclosure. This seems like an area that will get very hot on a hot day, and the sensitive electronics will probably prefer to be cooled. There are a couple of small holes in the back of the enclosure to allow the air to escape. Should provide plenty of cooling for the antennas.
Attached are a few pictures for those that might be interested.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Matt Dralle wrote:
| Quote: | At 07:56 PM 10/18/2009 Sunday, you wrote:
>
>
> Greetings Listers,
>
> I'm looking over this cooling blast tube kit from Van's (DUCT CBT-5/ and deciding what needs cooling and what doesn't. I'm guessing the Slick Mags do. The directions are pretty clear on how to mount the tube in the baffle, but don't mention at all where to shoot the air in around the mag. Is just in the general vacineity good enough, or is there a little hole in the mag that wants fresh air?
>
> I've also got the PlanePower 60amp alternator that Van's sells. The instruction booklet that comes with it brags about how, because of its design, it runs much cooler that traditional automobile conversions do. Okay, great. But does that mean that it still needs a blast tube off the front baffle for cooling? If so, same question on the mags. Where's a good place to stick the cool air on the alternator?
>
> Thanks in advance for the feedback,
>
> Matt Dralle
>
I never got any responses to this post, so I forged ahead. The tubes came out very nice. I ran a tube to the top of each mag about 1" above the surface.
I opted to run a duct to the back of the primary 60a alternator. I opted *not* to run a duct to the 20a secondary alternator figuring that it would be off most of the time and didn't warrant the reduction in baffle chamber pressure by drilling yet another hole.
I did opt to run a duct to the GPS antenna enclosure. This seems like an area that will get very hot on a hot day, and the sensitive electronics will probably prefer to be cooled. There are a couple of small holes in the back of the enclosure to allow the air to escape. Should provide plenty of cooling for the antennas.
Attached are a few pictures for those that might be interested.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
Hi Matt,
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Sorry that you didn't get a response earlier. I can't offer much insight
on the mags, but the critical stuff in an alternator is typically under
the sheet metal on the back, or just inside the case on the back. Having
said that, I would determine which way the internal fan is trying to
move air through the alternator, & supply the cool air to assist the
flow, instead of fighting it. The quick&dirty way to check that is to
use a drill to spin up the alternator in the correct rotation & feel for
the air flow.
Charlie
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dale1rv6(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Hi Matt,
Beautiful work and pictures as always. Regarding the antennas: that area
during flight will not exceed 120 F IMHO. I believe that based on an extra
digital temp probe I move around my engine compartment for testing of
different areas. The tubes will work against you at shut down. Do you have
the opportunity to get an extra temperature probe stuck in there? You seem
like the kind of guy that would enjoy the extra data collection. And I know
you have lots of electronics aboard!
And regarding Alternator temps, my 70 amp never went above 160 F without
cooling tube, although I normally have one. And that is the peak after shut
down, peak in flight was 135 F without and 125 F with cooling tube.
Dale
RV6a
1245 hrs, O-360 A1A, dual electronic ignition, dual electric. GRT EFIS S200
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Bill Schlatterer
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Matt, do you think water through the duct will hurt anything? Note sure you
will get a lot of water but you will get some pretty wet air if you fly in
the rain.
Just wondering?
Bill S
7a finishing
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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25858
Location: Livermore CA USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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At 07:18 PM 10/24/2009 Saturday, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Matt, do you think water through the duct will hurt anything? Note sure you
will get a lot of water but you will get some pretty wet air if you fly in
the rain.
Just wondering?
Bill S
7a finishing
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Hi Bill,
Well, all five of the GPS antennas are meant to be mounted on the exterior of a vehicle. This would put then in the normal rain and weather directly. Seems that a little moist air would probably be alright. I'm a little concerned about the area not drying out and causing corrosion or rust. But it seems like the high temps should dry it out pretty quickly.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82882 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com
Finishing Up FWF...
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skylor4(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Matt,
Just commenting on the blast tubes to your antenna tray: It appears that you intend for the tray to screw to the cowling when it's in place, or that you intend to fix a cover to the top of the tray. In either case, the tray will be a dead space without an area for the incoming air from the blast tubes to exit. In this case, the blast tube won't provide any cooling air flow, just positive ram air pressure during flight. As others have pointed out, the tube may just create a conduit for heat soak to warm the antennas after a hot shut down. I would probably leave those tube off of the antenna tray.
Skylor
RV-8 Under Construction
(for way too long!)
--- On Sat, 10/24/09, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes...
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 3:28 PM
At 07:56 PM 10/18/2009 Sunday, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <[url=/mc/compose?to=dralle(at)matronics.com]dralle(at)matronics.com[/url]>
Greetings Listers,
I'm looking over this cooling blast tube kit from Van's (DUCT CBT-5/ and deciding what needs cooling and what doesn't. I'm guessing the Slick Mags do. The directions are pretty clear on how to mount the tube in the baffle, but don't mention at all where to shoot the air in around the mag. Is just in the general vacineity good enough, or is there a little hole in the mag that wants fresh air?
I've also got the PlanePower 60amp alternator that Van's sells. The instruction booklet that comes with it brags about how, because of its design, it runs much cooler that traditional automobile conversions do. Okay, great. But does that mean that it still needs a blast tube off the front baffle for cooling? If so, same question on the mags. Where's a good place to stick the cool air on the alternator?
Thanks in advance for the feedback,
Matt Dralle
|
I never got any responses to this post, so I forged ahead. The tubes came out very nice. I ran a tube to the top of each mag about 1" above the surface.
I opted to run a duct to the back of the primary 60a alternator. I opted *not* to run a duct to the 20a secondary alternator figuring that it would be off most of the time and didn't warrant the reduction in baffle chamber pressure by drilling yet another hole.
I did opt to run a duct to the GPS antenna enclosure. This seems like an area that will get very hot on a hot day, and the sensitive electronics will probably prefer to be cooled. There are a couple of small holes in the back of the enclosure to allow the air to escape. Should provide plenty of cooling for the antennas.
Attached are a few pictures for those that might be interested.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
|
[quote][b]
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chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:14 am Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Matt,
Many Lycomings have shrouds as well as blast tubes for the magnetos. I purchased a pair of used magneto shrouds from a local certified engine shop. Heat and vibration are the enemies of anything electrical, like magnetos and alternators.
To properly protect an ND alternator, you need to understand how the cooling fans work. Your PlanePower ND alternator has two internal fans [mounted on the rotor shaft, internal to the cases]. These fans draw air in from both the front and the rear of the alternator case. This air is expelled through the slots located around the middle circumference of the alternator.
Lycoming engines spin opposite to what most car engines rotate. Honda engines rotate clockwise, as do our Lycomings. This means that an ND alternator off of something other than a Honda, will have the fans running backwards. Planepower's brag relates to the fact that it has the correct fan rotation for optimum cooling [clockwise]. I would recommend that you either aim your blast tube towards the rear of your alternator. An even better option would be to fabricate a shroud for the rear of the alternator and install the blast tube to the shroud. See attached photos of David Brand's very nice alternator shroud.
For folks using an ND alternator with internal fans which is NOT from a Honda, aim the blast tube at the slots around the circumference of the middle of the unit. Since the fans will be running in reverse, the air is being drawn in where it should be expelled. I hope this helps.
Charlie Kuss
PS I'll try to take a photo of my magneto shrouds later today.
I'm looking over this cooling blast tube kit from Van's (DUCT CBT-5/ and
deciding what needs cooling and what doesn't. I'm guessing the Slick Mags
do. The directions are pretty clear on how to mount the tube in the baffle,
but don't mention at all where to shoot the air in around the mag. Is just
in the general vacineity good enough, or is there a little hole in the mag
that wants fresh air?
| Quote: |
I've also got the PlanePower 60amp alternator that Van's sells. The
instruction booklet that comes with it brags about how, because of its
|
design, it runs much cooler that traditional automobile conversions do.
Okay, great. But does that mean that it still needs a blast tube off the
front baffle for cooling? If so, same question on the mags. Where's a good
place to stick the cool air on the alternator?
| Quote: |
Thanks in advance for the feedback,
Matt Dralle
|
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Charlie, do you know what aircraft the shrouds came from??? I've never
seen them! 'Course I'm no expert either! <GR>!
My little Grumman (AA-1B O-235) does have a cooling shroud ..... around
the oil screen ..... which has the temp probe ..... to get past the FAA
testing!
Linn
Charles Kuss wrote:
| Quote: | Matt,
Many Lycomings have shrouds as well as blast tubes for the magnetos.
|
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chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Linn,
I'm not sure. Might have been off of a Piper Cherokee???
Charlie
--- On Sun, 10/25/09, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes...
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 12:51 PM
Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Charlie, do you know what aircraft the shrouds came
from??? I've never seen them! 'Course I'm no
expert either! <GR>!
My little Grumman (AA-1B O-235) does have a cooling shroud
..... around the oil screen ..... which has the temp
probe ..... to get past the FAA testing!
Linn
Charles Kuss wrote:
> Matt,
> Many Lycomings have shrouds as well as blast
tubes for the magnetos.
Forum -
FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
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chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Here are some photos I took of the magneto cooling shrouds.
Charlie
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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25858
Location: Livermore CA USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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At 06:05 AM 10/26/2009 Monday, you wrote:
| Quote: | Here are some photos I took of the magneto cooling shrouds.
Charlie
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Where do they fit on the mag exactly?
Matt
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rv8iator
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 145
Location: Newberg, OR
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Charlie....
Are the shrouds for a Slick or Bendix? If for Slick, where/how do they attach.
Curious Chris in Oregon
RV-8
Overhauling IO-360 A1B6
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chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes... |
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Chris,
These are for Bendix [now TCM] magnetos. The top of the magneto is held on with 5 machine screws. The mounting brackets nest between the heads of 4 of those top screws and the top cap of the magneto.
Something similar could be fashioned for the Slick units. Making them out of composite may allow a better fit with less work.
Charlie
--- On Tue, 10/27/09, Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote] From: Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Mag & Alternator Cooling Blast Tubes...
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 9:42 AM
Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
Charlie....
Are the shrouds for a Slick or Bendix? If for Slick,
where/how do they attach.
Curious Chris in Oregon
RV-8
Overhauling IO-360 A1B6
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