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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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 Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvatio |
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At 07:01 PM 10/27/2009, John Hauck wrote:
| Quote: | I don't know what the draw to clear plastic fuel line is with
ultralighters, other than the standard answer, "I need to see my fuel." 
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John we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, though I agree with
you on most matters aeronautical. Having clear fuel line made it much
easier to solve a baffling engine problem with my UltraStar a few years ago.
But the clear stuff DOES need to be replaced regularly.
-Dana
--
We have enough youth; how about a Fountain of Smart?
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvatio |
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At 11:21 AM 10/28/2009, JetPilot wrote:
| Quote: | There is no need to see the fuel going through the line in any vehicle, be
it cars, boats, or airplanes....
There are those that will say " I need to see the bubbles if there is a
leak "... The best answer there is to have a properly designed fuel
system that is pressure fed rather than vacuum drawn..
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I already presented a situation where having a clear fuel line saved me
hours of troubleshooting. I consider that a "need".
It may be nice to have a pure pressure system, but unless you have a
submerged pump inside the fuel tank or tanks above the engine, there will
always be some part of the system using suction. Furthermore, if you have
a pulse pump like most 2-stroke engines do, the pump must be located close
to the engine, meaning that most of the fuel line is under suction.
Even black rubber hoses have a limited life and must be replaced, so the
difference is only one of degree, not fundamental. I simply have to (and
do) replace my hose more often, as preventative maintenance... and the
visual check I do during my preflight runup gives an added level of safety.
But I don't expect you to agree, and that's fine... there are lots of
pilots who think we're idiots to fly anything but a factory built type
certificated aircraft maintained by an A&P and inspected by an IA, and I
don't agree with them either.
-Dana
--
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors-- and miss.
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvatio |
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> It may be nice to have a pure pressure system, but unless you have a
| Quote: | submerged pump inside the fuel tank or tanks above the engine, there will
always be some part of the system using suction.
-Dana
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Dana/Gang:
Not to be argumentive, but to inform. I have a system that is pressure all
the way, when I have my boost pump on.
I pull fuel through a finger strainer out the very lowest point of my 25 gal
aluminum fuel tank. From there atmospheric pressure pushed the fuel to the
Facet Electronic Boost Pump mounted below the lowest point of the fuel tank.
As long as my boost pump is on, I have a completely pressurized system
without a submerged pump in the fuel tank.
Once I turn off the boost pump, I am then pulling fuel through the Facet
Pump to the engine driven fuel pump on the engine. I have never had a fuel
delivery problem. Always use Gates Premium Grade neoprene fuel line. Can't
see bubbles if I have them. If there is a suction leak at one of the
fittings, it isn't enough to cause fuel starvation.
With neoprene fuel line and the correct size hose clamp, I can get a good
bike without fear of cutting the hose, unlike plastic fuel line.
Plastic fuel line is much more prone to failure without giving a lot of
prefailure symptoms. I remember pulling on a plastic pulse tube and pulled
a section right out of it. Don't know how old it was, but back in my two
stroke days, I didn't fly them long before I trashed them.
Worth what you paid for it,
john h
mkIII
Furnace Creek, Death Valley, California
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvatio |
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At 08:21 AM 10/28/09 -0700, you wrote:
| Quote: |
You are very correct John, people parrot this line and have no understanding of how flawed and dangerous their reasoning is.
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Some of us do not have an electrical system, and some of us have severe
weight restrictions, and so the only way to get the fuel up to the pump and
carburetor is by use of squeeze bulb. If the engine is fitted with a
primer, one could do with out a squeeze bulb. The system could be primed by
hand cranking and running the engine in bursts until the fuel is sucked up
to the pump and the float bowl fills. For an older duffer like me, I prefer
some clear tubing in the system between the pump and the float bowl, so
that, I can see that I have fuel up to the float bowl. I am too old perform
the prime and run in bursts technique to prime the system. By the time I
get it done, I am in no shape to go flying.
I like the vacuum type system, in that there is just a short piece of
pressured line to the carburetor from the pump. It reduces the chance of
and reduces the magnitude of in flight fire, in that, the fire will
extinguish its self once the engine quits. On a pressurized system one must
remember to turn off the pump.
There are pro's and con's. No one system fits all. The danger, if any, is
that it is up to the pilot to recognize the failure modes of his system and
adapt to it.
Third start up of the MZ34. Slowly learning the intricacies of the
Tillotson carburetor.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvatio |
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Taking the safe way out of this one....by saying that I think the
stuff that Travis sells is plenty good...clear...thick walled for use
as fuel or pulse line...Herb
At 12:17 PM 10/28/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: |
JetPilot wrote:
>
>
> - - - -SNIP- - - -
> The risk in using cheap substandard clear fuel line is FAR
greater than whatever imagined benefit that ultralight community
has come up with.
>
> - - - - SNIP- - - -
>
> Mike
"....using cheap, substandard.... fuel line" is risky, whether it is
clear, opaque, non-clear, black, yellow, orange, pink, chartreuse or
polka-dotted.
Is it OK if I use expensive, high standard, clear line? Let me
know, 'cause I've been using pulse line (throughout my fuel system)
for 15+ years. Change it all out once a year. Wouldn't want a
problem to develop.
My thoughts..... make your own decisions.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 69863#269863
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10/28/09 09:34:00
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Possums
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvatio |
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I have been using the blue "see thru fuel lines" for the last 20
years and have never had problem - except the minor fire in the hanger
incident - hardly worth mentioning - considering the $100's of
dollars I've saved !!
At 05:41 PM 10/28/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: |
George,
There is not such thing as clear fuel line that even comes close to
the safety and quality of Aeroquip or High Pressure fuel injection
line. The fact that you feel the need to change your fuel line
every year is an indication of how substandard the stuff is, it does
not matter what you paid for it. - snip - But most importantly,
everyone should have the facts about the disadvantages and dangers
of this type of fuel line and make an informed decision instead of
just copying what other ultralights do.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as
you could have !!!
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Sorry Beauford - I didn't get my video done - trying to survive the
R.E. market up here & hate to waste pictures.
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