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Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

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WhiskeyVictor36(at)AOL.CO
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

Alan Mancus is rebuilding his wind damaged FireStar.  He  would like to have 

a seven rib wing.  But previous discussions on the list  pointed out the 

difficulty of moving the ribs (cannot slide because of burrs  creating scratches in 

the main spar tube) and leaving empty holes,  etc.

 

What do you think of this idea?

 

On the 5 rib wing, there is one lower false rib centered between each  full 

rib and there are 3 upper false ribs divided between each full  rib.  Remove 

the center upper and centered lower false ribs.  Get  another set of full ribs 

and cut them in half, right through the center of  the main spar flange.  With 

the rib assembly now in two pieces, assemble  them onto the wing spars were 

the false ribs were removed.  Form  a sheet metal piece, similar to the flange 

thickness, to splice the cut  flanges back together.  Fasten the new ribs to 

the spars (main,  leading and trailing) the same way as the existing ribs are.

 

This would make the wing much stronger and able to tolerate a higher  Vne.  

(five rib wings are redlined at 75 MPH).  The penalty would be a  heavier 

structure.

 

Pass on your thoughts.  



Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon  NJ

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

Bill, not a bad idea but here's another thought to add:

buy double the amount of flanges to be used and cut them

oversized to overlap the other piece by 1 1/2" or so.

Put the overlap joint at the top and bottom to reduce the

shear load on the rivet pattern..

-BB

On 8, Apr 2006, at 1:00 AM, WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Alan Mancus is rebuilding his wind damaged FireStar.  He  would like 

 to have

 a seven rib wing.  But previous discussions on the list  pointed out 

 the

 difficulty of moving the ribs (cannot slide because of burrs  creating 

 scratches in

 the main spar tube) and leaving empty holes,  etc.



 What do you think of this idea?



 On the 5 rib wing, there is one lower false rib centered between each  

 full

 rib and there are 3 upper false ribs divided between each full  rib.  

 Remove

 the center upper and centered lower false ribs.  Get  another set of 

 full ribs

 and cut them in half, right through the center of  the main spar 

 flange.  With

 the rib assembly now in two pieces, assemble  them onto the wing spars 

 were

 the false ribs were removed.  Form  a sheet metal piece, similar to 

 the flange

 thickness, to splice the cut  flanges back together.  Fasten the new 

 ribs to

 the spars (main,  leading and trailing) the same way as the existing 

 ribs are.



 This would make the wing much stronger and able to tolerate a higher  

 Vne.

 (five rib wings are redlined at 75 MPH).  The penalty would be a  

 heavier

 structure.



 Pass on your thoughts.



 Bill  Varnes

 Original Kolb FireStar

 Audubon  NJ

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

Bill.



It could be possible.

I would want to keep the top and bottom tubes of the ribs all one piece.

You may be interested in seeing how the Kolb rip off guys make their  

ribs.

Check these wing details.



http://n5.se/sK



http://n5.se/sQ



http://n5.se/sR



Please understand I'm not recommending this, just showing you some  

ideas.



Gene

On Apr 8, 2006, at 1:00 AM, WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   What do you think of this idea?



 On the 5 rib wing, there is one lower false rib centered between  

 each  full

 rib and there are 3 upper false ribs divided between each full   

 rib.  Remove

 the center upper and centered lower false ribs.  Get  another set  

 of full ribs

 and cut them in half, right through the center of  the main spar  

 flange.  With

 the rib assembly now in two pieces, assemble  them onto the wing  

 spars were

 the false ribs were removed.  Form  a sheet metal piece, similar to  

 the flange

 thickness, to splice the cut  flanges back together.  Fasten the  

 new ribs to

 the spars (main,  leading and trailing) the same way as the  

 existing ribs are.



 This would make the wing much stronger and able to tolerate a  

 higher  Vne.

 (five rib wings are redlined at 75 MPH).  The penalty would be a   

 heavier

 structure.



 Pass on your thoughts.

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

Sorry about the dead links. 

I'll attach the actual photos.

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a58r(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

re: http://n5.se/sK etc. "Document Not Found"

regards,

Bob N.

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/



do not archive

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

Sorry Bob,



I was trying to avoid using the "F" word but it didn't work as intended.

Trust you can open the attachments.



Gene

On Apr 8, 2006, at 5:22 PM, Robert Noyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 re: http://n5.se/sK etc. "Document Not Found"

 regards,

 Bob N.

 http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/



 do not archive

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

That is a nice wing.  The tip bow could use an anti-shrink support in 

the

last half.

No flanges!  they don't worry much about twisting moment.

-BB  do not archive

On 8, Apr 2006, at 5:33 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <etzim62(at)earthlink.net>

 Sorry Bob,

 I was trying to avoid using the "F" word but it didn't work as 

 intended.

 Trust you can open the attachments.

 Gene

 On Apr 8, 2006, at 5:22 PM, Robert Noyer wrote:

> 

>

> re: http://n5.se/sK etc. "Document Not Found"

> regards,

> Bob N.

> http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/

>

> do not archive

>

>

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

OK,

      In the Kolb plans....Your NOT suppose to rivet on the "TOP" or



 the "BOTTOM" of the wing spar.....because it would weaken it.....where it



does it's flexing..... you have rivets all over that area.....why ?



 Is that a Kolb wing ?

.

.

.

. 

Gotta Fly...

Mike in MN

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

Oooops,

             I see it's a Fergie.....Still , a bad place for those rivets...

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

In a message dated 4/8/2006 5:23:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

etzim62(at)earthlink.net writes:



Sorry  about the dead links. 

I'll attach the actual  photos

Thanks Gene,

 

I see that they have the ribs attached by a bracket or gusset riveted  to the 

very top of the main spar.  This is one area that "Kolb"  recommended no 

holes be drilled.  



Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not  Archive

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

In a message dated 4/8/2006 7:45:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

slyck(at)frontiernet.net writes:



buy  double the amount of flanges to be used and cut them

oversized to overlap  the other piece by 1 1/2" or so.

Put the overlap joint at the top and  bottom to reduce the

shear load on the rivet  pattern

 

 

OK BB,  Another good idea to consider.

 

Thanks,  



Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not  Archive

Possum

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Georgia

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

 	  Eugene Zimmerman wrote: 	
		  Sorry about the dead links. 

I'll attach the actual photos. 	




Here are some better ones.

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John Jung

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

 	  WhiskeyVictor36(at)AOL.CO wrote: 	
		  



What do you think of this idea?

 Pass on your thoughts.  	




Bill,



I like the idea, and I think that I might use it if I were recovering a 5 rib wing. I used to fly with an original Firestar, but after seeing pictures of a failed leading edge on a five rib firestar, I have a strong preference for 7 ribs. If I ever put new wings on my Firestar II, they will be of the 6" spar varity (i.e. Mark III, Kolbra, Slingshot).   do not archive

_________________
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Converting Five Rib Wing To 10 Ribs?

I really like the idea of douling the number of ribs in the wing.  That will only add a few pounds and will make it a lot stronger.



If more ribs becomes to daunting a task, streingthening the existing ribs is also a possibility.  Attached are some pictures of my MK-III wing with rib streingthening.



I would also suggest streingthening the wingtips while you are at it.  There have been a few reports of wingtip flutter at high speeds, and also that is just a fragile area that gets a lot of abuse and handling.  Streingthening that area is just a good idea.

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_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

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