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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
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 Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: Weight and balance - Europa XS too |
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The Pilot's Handbook that came with my XS has information for flying at
1370 lbs.
I saw a blurb somewhere or other that if flying at 1450lbs it was
reccomended to move aft CG parameters 1 inch more forward.
Do folk flying at 1450lbs with short wings observe POH parameters of aft
CG, or 1 inch more forward?
Those flying over 1450lbs?
How about XS with Long Wings?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: Weight and balance - Europa XS too |
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Ron...I forward the following from Alex Bowman:
In answer to the query about the aft C of G parameters of the Europa
XS, when operating the craft at a gross over 1370 lbs: I fly C-GGHY
within the C of G range recommended in the Pilots Handbook and do so up
to a gross of 1500 lbs. but tend to stay approx. 1" away from the aft
limit. This tendency is not based on scientific calculations. In my
earlier life, as a military test pilot, I was aware that if you
increase the wing loading of a given model, the C of G range shrinks.
The dynamic & static longitudinal stability of the XS up to 1500 lbs.
gross, is very acceptable across the airspeed range flown.
.
Cheers, Alex
On Saturday, April 1, 2006, at 09:46 AM, <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Do folk flying at 1450lbs with short wings observe POH parameters of
aft
CG, or 1 inch more forward?
Those flying over 1450lbs?
|
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rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: Weight and balance - Europa XS too |
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| Quote: | In answer to the query about the aft C of G parameters
of the Europa XS, when operating the craft at a gross
over 1370 lbs: I fly C-GGHY within the C of G range
recommended in the Pilots Handbook and do so up to a
gross of 1500 lbs. but tend to stay approx. 1" away
from the aft limit. This tendency is not based on
scientific calculations. In my earlier life, as a
military test pilot, I was aware that if you increase
the wing loading of a given model, the C of G range
shrinks. The dynamic & static longitudinal stability of
the XS up to 1500 lbs. gross, is very acceptable across
the airspeed range flown.
|
I am interested in your statement "I fly C-GGHY within the
C of G range recommended in the Pilots Handbook and do so
up to a gross of 1500 lbs"
Where in the Europa supplied POH does it permit 1500 lbs ?
In the UK it is 1370 only and I understood that 1450 was
permitted in the land of the free (and Experimental).
The Europa supplied graph of weight and balance is
constrained by BOTH C of G _and_ total weight.
The maximums are not really to deal with normal cruise or
climb but are restrictions based on turbulence and less
consistent conditions.
Richard
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: Weight and balance - Europa XS too |
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Richard,
Alex Bowman's Europa XS is registered in Canada; my understanding is
that the Canadian authorities offer considerable latitude w/ regard to
max. gross weights of experimental aircraft. You're quite right in
noting that the Europa POH makes no provisions for flying at 1500 lbs,
nor does Alex imply that that is so...as I read his statement as
posted, he has calculated his C of G and kept it within the range given
in the POH albeit 1" short of the aft limit.
I'm happy to forward any queries you might have to Alex, and with the
coming of spring, Alex has told me that one of his priorities is to
produce some flight data over a broad range of conditions which I'll be
happy to share with the forum when it's available. As you may know,
Alex's plane is powered with a Honda-based, CAM 125 engine; I've posted
a number of pictures on the matronics photoshare w/ some comments.
Fred
On Monday, April 3, 2006, at 02:59 AM, Richard Holder wrote:
| Quote: | I am interested in your statement "I fly C-GGHY within the
C of G range recommended in the Pilots Handbook and do so
up to a gross of 1500 lbs"
Where in the Europa supplied POH does it permit 1500 lbs ?
Richard
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Ken Hill
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Pleasanton, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and balance - Europa XS too |
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Ron,
I have a trigear/ 914/ Rospeller constant speed prop/ short wing that is registered with a MTOW of 1450lbs. I selected this weight after talking with Andy about the tests they ran at this weight. I do not notice any unusual behavior. Obviously the T.O. roll is longer, the climb is decreased and you have to observe other precautions.
I have not tested it at MTOW with a CG of over 61.5 as I can't legally force it beyond that #.
As a former C-130 pilot I agree with Rons comments. Many years ago the C130's had a MTOW of 150,000lbs. and a war time MTOW of 175,000lbs. Yes, you had to take more precautions but the only real issue I remember was fatigue on the airframe.
Ken
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topglock(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: Weight and balance - Europa XS too |
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Interesting thread. Mary and I returned from Sun-N-Fun, today with a
loaded plane. N55XS was listed at 1450 lbs gross, when our AW cert. was
issued and I can guarantee that we were at that weight for this trip.
Yes, T.O. roll was increased, and climb was somewhat slower, but she
performed like a real trooper. I also noticed that fuel consumption was
up about .3 gph. Nothing major, but noticable. All in all, a great
trip with a very reliable airplane. 13.7 hours in all and it was great
to spend some time with Andy and John and several Europa drivers.
Jeff - N55XS
164 hours and still grinnin'
Ken Hill wrote:
| Quote: |
Ron,
I have a trigear/ 914/ Rospeller constant speed prop/ short wing that is registered with a MTOW of 1450lbs. I selected this weight after talking with Andy about the tests they ran at this weight. I do not notice any unusual behavior. Obviously the T.O. roll is longer, the climb is decreased and you have to observe other precautions.
I have not tested it at MTOW with a CG of over 61.5 as I can't legally force it beyond that #.
As a former C-130 pilot I agree with Rons comments. Many years ago the C130's had a MTOW of 150,000lbs. and a war time MTOW of 175,000lbs. Yes, you had to take more precautions but the only real issue I remember was fatigue on the airframe.
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=27178#27178
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