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Elevator Cables Again
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agibeaut

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 64

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

I'm stumped. When I tried to tighten my elevator cables for the first time, the stick started to bind when I moved it to the right. I could not find where it was binding for the life of me. Then, I discovered that the cables actually tighten up as the stick is moved right thus creating what felt like binding. The elevator up and down motion is fine. To the stops in both directions.



So to further explain; If I move the stick to the left, both cables become loose, when I move it to the right, both tighten. Makes no difference where the stick is in the up/down motion, the result is the same.



I got Caleb on the phone and he gave me the cable tension; 20# + or- 5# but I can't get close to 20# without the cables tightening and limiting movement to the right. Hope I explained this OK, and really hope one of you guys has a helpful hint. One of those days for sure!

ch701builder(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

Art,

This topic has been brought up before, (at least on the Yahoo group).



The reason is the elevator control is offset to the right side of the plane. Then as you rotate the control to the right, the distance between the control and the elevator horns becomes shorter, hence, it gets tighter. Then the opposite for moving the control to the left.



I am trying to find a photo that I found what somebody did, was to add an offset to the lower part of the bellcrank 7C1-1 (I think)



I will post when I find it.



Keith



From: Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thu, November 12, 2009 7:26:57 PM

Subject: Elevator Cables Again



 --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com (aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com)>



I'm stumped. When I tried to tighten my elevator cables for the first time, the stick started to bind when I moved it to the right. I could not find where it was binding for the life of me. Then, I discovered that the cables actually tighten up as the stick is moved right thus creating what felt like binding. The elevator up and down motion is fine. To the stops in both directions.



So to further explain; If I move the stick to the left, both cables become loose, when I move it to the right, both tighten. Makes no difference where the stick is in the up/down motion, the result is the same.



I got Caleb on the phone and he gave me the cable tension; 20# + or- 5# but I can't get close to 20# without the cables tightening and limiting movement to the right. Hope I explained this 



         [quote][b]

Tommy Walker

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:10 am Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

That is an anomaly of the 701.  Like Keith said, because of the offset you will have that tension when the stick is moved to the right.  A couple of guys came up with a solution they said works.  I have a picture of it, but haven't tried it.  You basically have to remake the control arm.  

I guess the trick is to get the cable tight enough when the stick is to the left that it doesn't flop and not bind too much when the stick it to the right.  Just keep experimenting. 

  

Tommy Walker in Alabama  

Do Not Archive      [quote][b]

_________________
Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL

jpspencer(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:26 am Post subject: Elevator cables again

>I got Caleb on the phone and  he gave me the cable tension; 20# + or- 5# but I can't

get close to 20#  without the cables tightening and limiting movement to the

right.  



 No way I can run any tension on  mine...the only way I could get full right aileron without binding is to run the  elevator cables way slack. On mine, it gets worse with flaps out, maybe one of  the reasons they took out the 2nd notch of flaps. I put the 2nd notch in mine  and with a 100 horse 912 on a go around with both notches out there isn't enough  aileron to keep it from rolling uncontrollably left. IMO the control system  needs a redesign to symmetrical to eliminate the  problem

   [quote][b]

dlorrzen701(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

Tommy, would you mind posting a picture of the modified control arm.

Thanks

David L.Orr

EAA430

Geoff Heap

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Lindenwold, New Jersey

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Elevator Cables Again

I don't think Zenith is coming clean with you. They know perfectly well that this is a (small) bona fide design flaw. At one time they would suggest a bungee cord hooked onto the loose cable inside the rear fuselage to keep the tension on it. I tried this and it's half assed. I gave up on these halfway solutions until I came across a post of a fix that made perfect sense. i looked at the two pictures and knew it was the right answer. I can post the pics tomorrow. I don't think it's the same one that Tommy means. Basically you split off the elevator bell crank away from the Torque tube and mount it separately. Its not a quick fix but in my opinion its the right way to do it. I'm not flying yet but i have the modifications done and now each control works fine with no interference from the other.......Geoff

cscsail(at)gmavt.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

I agree -- it is a bad design. I have to keep the cables almost slack when 

the stick is pulled right, so that it won't bind-up when moved left. I do 

use the bungee cord system and it seems to work ok, but the stick always has 

a pull to the right when flying and when the flaperons are deployed the 

whole system tightens up and it is difficult to move the stick full left. At 

over a 100 hrs I've gotten used to it, but if there is a better design, I'd 

like to see it.

Gordon

---

stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:03 pm Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

Geoff

  

 Here are a few pics of the mod, that makes everything work properly. Sorry  for the poor quality of the photos.

  

 Robert

 the 701 & 750 scratch

  

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_________________
Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo

dlorrzen701(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

Thanks for the pictures Robert.  Did you have to modify both ends of the Pitch Rod with CW rod ends or just the end in the picture?

Thanks

David L. Orr

EAA430

stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

David

  

 I didn't do the actual modification. It was done by a  friend of mine who Winters in Arizona, so I don't know if he did  not. However, knowing him, I would expect that both ends were done in this  fashion.

  

 Fly safe

 Robert

 EAA851832

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo

Tommy Walker

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Elevator Cables Again

David,

The pictures Robert posted are the ones I have.

Thanks,

Tommy Walker in Alabama

Do NOt Archive



 	  dlorrzen701(at)earthlink. wrote: 	
		  Tommy, would you mind posting a picture of the modified control arm.

Thanks

David L.Orr

EAA430

_________________
Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL

Geoff Heap

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Lindenwold, New Jersey

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator Cables Again

Sorry I couldn't get back until now. I see all questions answered. Roberts pictures are the ones I was trying unsuccessfully to find. Attached is a pic of my aileron bell crank removed from the torque tube and re mounted on a base ready to re assemble.....Geoff

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dlorrzen701(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

Geoff do you plan to use CW Rod ends on both ends of the control rod 7C1-3?

Thanks 

David L. Orr

EAA430

agibeaut

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 64

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

Thanks to all that came to my rescue. Excellent ideas guys, thanks again.



--- On Tue, 11/17/09, Geoff Heap <stol10(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Geoff Heap <stol10(at)comcast.net>

 Subject: Re: Elevator Cables Again

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 2:46 PM

 --> Zenith701801-List message

 posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>

 

 Sorry I couldn't get back until now. I see all questions

 answered. Roberts pictures are the ones I was trying

 unsuccessfully to find. Attached is a pic of my aileron bell

 crank removed from the torque tube and re mounted on a base

 ready to re assemble.....Geoff

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 73324#273324

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/aileron_mod2_135.jpg

 

 

 

 

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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

Anyone know if the design changed in the 750?



-- Craig



--

Geoff Heap

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Lindenwold, New Jersey

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Elevator Cables Again

David. If by CW you mean those universal swiveling ball ends then the answer is yes. I don't think they are necessary with this Mod but the action will be smoother than making connections with bolt, castle nut and 

cotter pin....Geoff

pbuttles(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

has anyone seen how savannh does it?

the offset the control tourqe tube  by cutting it and welding it on an offset to place the cables right down the center of the tube .

sorry dont have a pic and hadr to find a pic online . a friend is building one and i wil have to see about getting pics.

i would have to say that the sanvannh kit is impressive with all the CNC work on all the parts !

n3721c

Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 1
Location: montana

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator Cables Again

Hi I'm new to the discussion and I'm working on a 701 that was built and certified but was not built to very good standards so I am working with my a&i to do some mods on the elevator cable situation and when I am done with it I will post some pics of it.What i have done is to install the mixer assy. from a skyraider exp. aircraft one on each side for dual controls and also like the pics on this site of the elevator belcrank I have made it separate from the aileron control.It takes a little more time to install, then the mixer set up's I have seen using the existing center controls but i started it before I knew of any other control setups out there for this aircraft.So hopefully it will work and my mechanic gives it his approval.Thanks Wayne

d.shrader

Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 38

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator Cables Again

My version of the divorced elevator bell-crank mount



dave

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rockiedog2

Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 19

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:11 am Post subject: Elevator Cables Again

Well that sure oughta hold  up.

   [quote][b]

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