 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
sarg314(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
 |
|
I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully installed before and am running into various problems that have me reconsidering things.
The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot lighter. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away.
Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric easier to install/live with?
--
Tom Sargent
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
Tom,
I went with the Gretz relocated electric trim from day one. Control is on a hat switch on the stick grip. During my initial transition training, I practiced controlling the elevator with the trim in the opposite direction (probably ought to practice that again as it was quite a while ago).
My only disappointment has been the little displays - I've had to replace them a couple of time as one of the internal LED's quit.
No other issues,
Ralph
--
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rveighta(at)comcast.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
Tom, I built an RV-8A with manual trim and an RV-8 with electric trim, and for me I'd go with the manual trim if I had it to do over in
another plane. Two reasons: first the manual cable seemed easier to install and secondly and most important, the manual trim
allowed me to precisely adjust trim for any speed. With the electric, precise trim at cruise speeds was dang near impossible.
Just my 2 cents.....
Walt Shipley
---
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
randy(at)djdist.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:50 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
Tom, I have 260 hrs on my manual trim RV-7 and would do it again as the trim is so precise and sensitive and it can't break (or not very likely)! 1/4" adjustments at the trim knob are all that is required when you are nearing cruise speed and altitude.
Randy Utsey
RV-7 / N55CU
---
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
larygagnon(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
Tom,
I've done both and I prefer the manual. The electric is very sensitive at cruise but works well in the pattern. I've seen various devices to change the speed of the servo depending on your airspeed but they are expensive and add complexity. I'll take the weight penalty of the manual. Don't forget the size of the mount on the trim tab is different from manual to electric.
Larry Gagnon
RV6 N6LG
-----Original Message
From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>
To: rv-list <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 12:19 pm
Subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric
I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully installed before and am running into various problems that have me reconsidering things.
The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot lighter. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away.
Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric easier to install/live with?
--
Tom Sargent
| Quote: |
====================================
ric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
thelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
ator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
====================================
ttp://forums.matronics.com
====================================
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
denis.walsh(at)comcast.ne
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
This is a tough trade off analysis, and a lot of it is purely subjective; Here's my take.
Cost: the manual is far cheaper
Installation: I believe the Installation is slightly easier on the electric but shoe horning that servo in to the elevator is not easy. If the Gretz version is still available, it makes the electric way easier.
weight: The electric is far lighter.
Space: The manual takes up a bit of space in the cockpit so the electric gets the nod.
Feel: This is very subjective to say the least. For my money the manual has a far better feel and preciseness. To add to the bargain you can see what you got for take off or go around. Easier to set, and quicker too. Most pilots don't like the lack of feed back from the electric servo and its slowness. You can get various speed changers and gain switchers. Bottom line is most pilots who have flown with electric trim before can get accustomed to the shortcomings. I did.
Safety: Probably the most debated issue. Surely "runaway trim" is a possibility with the electric. It is not a possibility with the manual.
I know lots of folks will come after me for saying this, but I don't think it is a significant problem in an RV-6A. First of all most of the dark and stormy night horror stories are about big airplanes with stabilizer trim. On the B-52 it was a real threat. The huge hydraulic motors could drive the huge stabilizer very quickly to a position far beyond you ability to overcome the pitch force with the puny elevator. With elevator trim in the RV 6A. you do not lose elevator effectiveness when the trim tab takes off. For example if the trim runs away to full down (tab up) and you counter it with up elevator, then your effective elevator power is actually more than if the tab were elsewhere.
I have tested many times and the elevator force required to overcome full up trim on take off is easily manageable. I don't know how fast you can go and still control it with our using both hands but I believe it is do able. I leave it to Kevin Horton to do this test for us.
As for me I installed a pullable circuit breaker for the trim power which is easily accessible. It has never been used in flight.
I went with the electric and have had several failures, all broken wires. I replaced most of the wires with mil spec 22 ga and solved that problem. These failures would cause me to lose trim altogether. Basically an inconvenience in the RV-6A.
Good luck on your choice.. I like both systems, but went with the electric and have no regrets. My little servo has 2400 hours on it and still works. I used the matronics speed controller and ordered a new improved one after the old one was ten years old, got rained on, and became intermittent. When pulling it out to switch I found a loose connection so it is still in the plane (with a rain guard) and I have a spare if you want to make an offer. ; ).
LET THE flames begin on my rant about runaway trim. I would surely like to hear from someone who has experienced it with an RV-6.
Denis
On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:19 , thomas sargent wrote:
| Quote: | I am doing final assembly on a 6A. I've never had the trim cable fully installed before and am running into various problems that have me reconsidering things.
The manual trim has the advantage that it is not electric - no wiring, no dependence on the electrical system. I also like the very positive connection from my hand to the trim tab. But, (I'm guessing here) the electric looks like it's a lot easier to install. It's probably also a lot lighter. Though, I've heard lots of stories about the servo's running away.
Have any of you converted from manual trim to electric? Is the electric easier to install/live with?
--
Tom Sargent
| Quote: |
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
n343fd(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:26 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
On my flying RV6
Manual aileron trim = love it
Electric Elevator trim = HATE IT!
If I ever finish my RV7 both will be manual
Mike Divan
N64GH - RV6 (flying)
http://n64gh.blogspot.com/
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS!
Remember it is the Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Coast Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"!
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
Can you explain further? Please?
RF
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Divan
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:22 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
On my flying RV6
Manual aileron trim = love it
Electric Elevator trim = HATE IT!
If I ever finish my RV7 both will be manual
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
martin(at)gbonline.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:15 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
I have 2000 plus hours on my RV8 with the electric trim on aeleron and elevater. I installed a 4 position top hat switch on the top of the control stick for easy operation. The only mod was to install a speed reducer on the elevator trim motor. It was an easy install. The speed reducer is necessaary on the elevator inorder to fine tune elevator cruise position. The aeleron trim allows me to use all of the fuel from each tank at one time on long trips . It is nice to know exactly when a tank is out on a long trip. I did not use tabs for the trim. I cut sections from the trailing edge and made new pieces that are hinged as a part of the aeleron /eleator. Nothing sticks out.
It takes time to do this, but i found it well worth the effort.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
IO-390
the fast one
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
Well, Vans eliminated the choice for the RV-10. Electric elevator trim only.
Mike Divan wrote:
| Quote: | On my flying RV6
Manual aileron trim = love it
Electric Elevator trim = HATE IT!
If I ever finish my RV7 both will be manual
|
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sarg314(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
Thanks for all the useful responses on the trim issue. I guess the easiest thing for me to do is to stick with the manual trim. I'm most of the way down that road, so I will continue in that direction.
--
Tom Sargent
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob Collins
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
I have manual trim and am not flying yet. But one thing it kinda hoses up is wiring runs. One of the holes on the left side of the tunnel in my RV-7a is dedicated to a big manual trim cable (and also an ELT wiring run. ) I don't have much electrical stuff in the plane but the hole right side of the tunnel is full up with two strobe cables, a strobe power cable, a nav light cable, and an ELT instrument panel light cable. I could sure use some more room back there.
and I havne't even run any antenna cables yet.
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Finch
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:40 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: elevator trim, manual vs electric
Can you explain further? Please?
RF
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Divan
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:22 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
On my flying RV6
Manual aileron trim = love it
Electric Elevator trim = HATE IT!
If I ever finish my RV7 both will be manual
[quote]
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rv8iator
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 145
Location: Newberg, OR
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
Bob...
The future is wireless! If you can wait...
I started with manual trim in my -8 and switched to electric. Simpler installation and it works great in John's -8. I put a govenor (Matronics) in to slow the servo speed to make fine adjustments in cruise possible.
Chris Stone
RV-8
Newberg, OR
--
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
_________________
C. Stone (RV8iator) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
Manual trim is far more precise when setting the trim. It gives a good "touch" making it far easier to get the perfect trim. That is, it gives an excellent feel for where the trim is or needs to be. Electric trim really begs for a motor speed reducer to minimize overrunning (chasing) the desired trim. I love my manual trim and would do it again. I moved mine from between the seats (RV-6) over to the left of the cockpit mounted against the fuselage left wall. I operate it with my left hand. The cable slopes down from the control knob on a 45 degree angle and then loops up along the fuselage wall (near my left knee) and reward running under the left longeron to the rear of the airplane. Neat and out of the way.
Pete in Clearwater
RV-6, Reserve Grand Champion S 'n F and other awards
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bell
Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 17
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
We had planned on using manual trim on our 8A.. When we ran it , we went by the shelf where we are putting the ahars for the dynon skyview…we put a boy scout compass on the shelf and found that the last 4 feet or so or the trim cable was magnetized…we were limited on the shelf location and the routing of the cable…so…we are installing the electric trim…anyone installing a remote compass sensor may want to check this out before everything is buttoned up…
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:49 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
Manual trim is far more precise when setting the trim. It gives a good "touch" making it far easier to get the perfect trim. That is, it gives an excellent feel for where the trim is or needs to be. Electric trim really begs for a motor speed reducer to minimize overrunning (chasing) the desired trim. I love my manual trim and would do it again. I moved mine from between the seats (RV-6) over to the left of the cockpit mounted against the fuselage left wall. I operate it with my left hand. The cable slopes down from the control knob on a 45 degree angle and then loops up along the fuselage wall (near my left knee) and reward running under the left longeron to the rear of the airplane. Neat and out of the way.
Pete in Clearwater
RV-6, Reserve Grand Champion S 'n F and other awards
| Quote: | | www.aeroelectric.com |
0123456789012345678
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
john_s_bright(at)yahoo.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: elevator trim, manual vs electric |
|
|
i suppose you could demagnetize the trim cable
Thanks,
John Bright
From: Glenn Bell <glennbell(at)cablelynx.com>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 9:54:35 AM
Subject: RE: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
We had planned on using manual trim on our 8A.. When we ran it , we went by the shelf where we are putting the ahars for the dynon skyview…we put a boy scout compass on the shelf and found that the last 4 feet or so or the trim cable was magnetized…we were limited on the shelf location and the routing of the cable…so…we are installing the electric trim…anyone installing a remote compass sensor may want to check this out before everything is buttoned up…
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:49 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Re: elevator trim, manual vs electric
Manual trim is far more precise when setting the trim. It gives a good "touch" making it far easier to get the perfect trim. That is, it gives an excellent feel for where the trim is or needs to be. Electric trim really begs for a motor speed reducer to minimize overrunning (chasing) the desired trim. I love my manual trim and would do it again. I moved mine from between the seats (RV-6) over to the left of the cockpit mounted against the fuselage left wall. I operate it with my left hand. The cable slopes down from the control knob on a 45 degree angle and then loops up along the fuselage wall (near my left knee) and reward running under the left longeron to the rear of the airplane. Neat and out of the way.
Pete in Clearwater
RV-6, Reserve Grand Champion S 'n F and other awards
0123456789012345678
[quote][b]www.aeroelectric.c_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
