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New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

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dons701

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA

Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:19 am Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

It's a freezing rain Sunday hear in Pa and I found this surfing on the net.  www.customflightsystems.com

I just sent an email to them today asking if they made any for the 701. I also asked if he tested any type of hydraulic dampening with his system. While the trailing link suspension is interesting are there any thoughts out there on this idea ? Pros, Cons ? I know that if care is taken the stock gear is fine but would this or something else be better ? Thank you for your thoughts. Don

_________________
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

After looking at the video, it would appear that with a hard landing you  would smash your prop right in the ground.

  

 Bob Spudis  CH701/912S

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 12/13/2009 1:20:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  burdon1(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I found    this surfing on the net.  www.customflightsystems.com

I just sent an    email to them today asking if they made any for the 701. I also asked if he    tested any type of hydraulic dampening with his system.  	


 

  

  [quote][b]

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

Don,  

Pls let us know what you find out about this gear for a 701 (like its weight, cost, and maximum vertical movement).  

The action of the gear looks great, but watching the video you can see that the nose drops when you hit a bump. Having already "trimmed" the ends so of my Warpdrive prop unintentionally ($350 repair) I am a bit concerned about this. If I hold onto the breaks and power up, my 701 nose drops about 4". This gear looks like it may drop the nose even further.  

If I were to get this gear, I would raise the nose-to-ground clearance. Since I already chucked my Carlisle 18" tires and installed 21"-diameter mains (see http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/testing-larger-bushwheel-tires), I could add about 3" and the plane would still look Ok on the ground.  

Les    

   

--

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

But Bob,

 We never ever make hard landings in 701s. Right?

 Les  

       

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of NYTerminat(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 10:49 AM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??  

  

  

       

   

    

After looking at the video, it would appear that with a hard landing you would smash your prop right in the ground.  

    

   

    

Bob Spudis  CH701/912S  

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

In a message dated 12/13/2009 1:20:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, burdon1(at)comcast.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

I found this surfing on the net.  www.customflightsystems.com

 I just sent an email to them today asking if they made any for the 701. I also asked if he tested any type of hydraulic dampening with his system.   	
  

    

   

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NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

I wouldn't say never!  I have been known to botch a few, especially in  the beginning 

  

  

 In a message dated 12/13/2009 2:14:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  lgold(at)quantum-associates.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

But    Bob,

We never ever make hard landings in 701s.    Right?

Les   

 	


 

  

  [quote][b]

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

Need to have enough clearence with the springs all compressed,  or messured the clearence without the springs, then install them...  Good idea.

  

 Saludos

Gary Gower.

--- On Sun, 12/13/09, NYTerminat(at)aol.com <NYTerminat(at)aol.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com <NYTerminat(at)aol.com>

Subject: Re: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 1:48 PM



    

 After looking at the video, it would appear that with a hard landing you would smash your prop right in the ground.

  

 Bob Spudis  CH701/912S

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 12/13/2009 1:20:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, burdon1(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I found this surfing on the net.  www.customflightsystems.com

I just sent an email to them today asking if they made any for the 701. I also asked if he tested any type of hydraulic dampening with his system. 	


 

  

 	  Quote: 	
		  



ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com

/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com

ofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com

llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution

ist" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com



	


	


         [quote][b]

lvuman(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

Seems like a nice alternative to a pusher system but in really rough areas, I would guess it would dip too much and catch a prop tip on a 701.



On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:19 AM, dons701 <burdon1(at)comcast.net (burdon1(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "dons701" <burdon1(at)comcast.net (burdon1(at)comcast.net)>

  

 It's a freezing rain Sunday hear in Pa and I found this surfing on the net.  www.customflightsystems.com

 I just sent an email to them today asking if they made any for the 701. I also asked if he tested any type of hydraulic dampening with his system. While the trailing link suspension is interesting are there any thoughts out there on this idea ? Pros, Cons ? I know that if care is taken the stock gear is fine but would this or something else be better ? Thank you for your thoughts. Don

  

 --------

 Zenith 701 #76120

 Jabiru 2200A #2456  55 hours

 Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277418#277418

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

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 le, List Admin.

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 [b]

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

Keep in mind that the nose wheel steering setup on a lot of the ultralight class pushers kind of makes the 701 strut look like the steering assembly for a Sherman tank.  They really need better nose wheels.

  

 Just like a lot of the people that have responded so far, I spent the whole video thinking "that sure looks like a good way to shorten a propellor blade or two."

  

 I liked the tunes that were played during the video though. 



 Do Not Archive

  

 Doug MacDonald

 CH-701 Scratch Builder

 NW Ontario, Canada

  

 

   From: James Sagerser <lvuman(at)gmail.com>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, December 13, 2009 8:58:13 PM

Subject: Re: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??



Seems like a nice alternative to a pusher system but in really rough areas, I would guess it would dip too much and catch a prop tip on a 701.

 	  Quote: 	
		   	




          The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier.  Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free!  [quote][b]

dons701

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

Thanks to all who replied. When I receive an email from this company I will post it here. 

  I do understand that if anyone would install any type of different nose gear, they should test the clearance at maximum compression. I do remember reading about someone who was experimenting with a new type of gear, just wanted to possibly hear from them or anyone to see how it was coming along. Don

_________________
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

So with their setup on the Challanger... did it not have a suspension on the main part of the nose fork? With a normal bungie suspension too it seems like this would be a very bouncy ride.

  

 I would think that this pivoting link is really just doing what the main bungie on our 701 is doing, but with much less resistance.

 John Marzulli



http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/

http://MarzulliPhoto.net/

http://701Builder.blogspot.com/

 

 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 2:58 PM, dons701 <burdon1(at)comcast.net (burdon1(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "dons701" <burdon1(at)comcast.net (burdon1(at)comcast.net)>

 

Thanks to all who replied. When I receive an email from this company I will post it here.

 I do understand that if anyone would install any type of different nose gear, they should test the clearance at maximum compression. I do remember reading about someone who was experimenting with a new type of gear, just wanted to possibly hear from them or anyone to see how it was coming along. Don

 

--------

Zenith 701 #76120

Jabiru 2200A #2456  55 hours

Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277529#277529

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[b]

dons701

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA

Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

Hi John, I did not see any additional spring on the main tube, just what looks like four valve springs stacked to provide the two step spring rate. Resistance of movement can provide some crude dampening on the 701, until the nylon wears away at least.   Don

_________________
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

Doug,  

The 701 gear may look supper strong, but don’t think it can’t be improved. I know of an instance, on a short field landing during a new pilot’s check ride, that the nose gear collapsed on his new 701. The tube just bent back about 90-degrees just below the lower bearing. We looked very carefully and couldn’t find anything wrong with the construction. Ever since then I try very hard to come down easy on the nose and don’t mind looking at alternative gear.  

Les    

       

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MacDonald Doug

 Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:01 PM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??  

  

  

       

Keep in mind that the nose wheel steering setup on a lot of the ultralight class pushers kind of makes the 701 strut look like the steering assembly for a Sherman tank.  They really need better nose wheels.  

    

   

    

Just like a lot of the people that have responded so far, I spent the whole video thinking "that sure looks like a good way to shorten a propellor blade or two."  

    

   

    

I liked the tunes that were played during the video though.   

    

Do Not Archive  

    

   

    

Doug MacDonald  

    

CH-701 Scratch Builder  

    

NW Ontario, Canada  

    

   

    

         

  

From: James Sagerser <lvuman(at)gmail.com>

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Sun, December 13, 2009 8:58:13 PM

 Subject: Re: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

 

 Seems like a nice alternative to a pusher system but in really rough areas, I would guess it would dip too much and catch a prop tip on a 701.

 

    	  Quote: 	
		   	


  

  

  

       

  

The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free!    	  Quote: 	
		     	
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       [quote][b]

dons701

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:19 am Post subject: Re: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

For what it's worth, here below is the response to my request of info about the availability of the  nose gear for the 701 from Custom Flight Systems. 

   The reason for my curiosity of alternate designs of nose gear (or anything else) is that while tried and true, any design or initial concept can be improved upon in time, especially when it comes to safety improvements. When looking at the incidents involving nose gear on the 701 and others, the bending of the axle allowing tire contact and lock-up, the "fold back" of the gear tube at or near the lower bearing contact area seem to be consistent issues when sufficient hard contact or"arrivals" are made. I read about thicker axles being made, even of solid stainless if i'm not mistaken. In looking at the axle wheel assembly I can understand that due to the requirement of the tire width versus the width of the bearing hub that there is not much support to deliver the force of impact from this bearing hub suspended in the middle of the shaft, back through the wheel fork doubler, then tube and bungee. Solution? If not stonger axles, how about a support brackets added to the axle shaft spacers that would deliver some of the impact back through the fork doubler. Or both.  

  When it comes to the nose gear tube folding back, perhaps having a much wider bearing contact area, (flange bearing ?), may help as this would spread the side (back) force to eliminate the pressure point effect of the 1/4" thick nylon lower bearing. This might eliminate the consequence of the initial denting to the side wall of the tube which weakens it's design strength, allowing the tube wall to collapse.

 These are just my thoughts, please pick them apart, any and all comments are welcome for the safety of our sport. 

  Thanks in advance and Merry Ho Ho .........  Don



Hi Don,



We had a inquiry from a 701 owner in the past but no one has installed our nose gear on a 701 to date. The steering shaft is (OD 1-3/8 X .095 thk and 22â€ long) We can make some modifications if needed. A 1-7/8 X .250 thk 4130 tube cut into bushings will adapted our nose gear to the 2â€ tube. (PN 03-10600 McMaster Carr). We are using 4 springs with different spring rates instead of heavy and expensive hydraulic damping systems. The rebound has not been reported as an issue to date.



Thank you

Wade  Custom Flight Systems.

_________________
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop

mksoucy(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:57 am Post subject: New style Nose Gear for the 701-801??

What I do not like about the 701 nose gear is the solid rudder pedal connection. I intend to set my up with a spring type connection like the tailwheel on my piet. Hopefully this way the tire can align itself (xwind landing ,etc.) if it has to eliminating stress.   



Mike



Sent from my iPod



On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:19 PM, "dons701" <burdon1(at)comcast.net> wrote:






For what it's worth, here below is the response to my request of info about the availability of the  nose gear for the 701 from Custom Flight Systems. 

  The reason for my curiosity of alternate designs of nose gear (or anything else) is that while tried and true, any design or initial concept can be improved upon in time, especially when it comes to safety improvements. When looking at the incidents involving nose gear on the 701 and others, the bending of the axle allowing tire contact and lock-up, the "fold back" of the gear tube at or near the lower bearing contact area seem to be consistent issues when sufficient hard contact or"arrivals" are made. I read about thicker axles being made, even of solid stainless if i'm not mistaken. In looking at the axle wheel assembly I can understand that due to the requirement of the tire width versus the width of the bearing hub that there is not much support to deliver the force of impact from this bearing hub suspended in the middle of the shaft, back through the wheel fork doubler, then tube and bungee. Solution? If not stonger axles, how about a support

 brackets added to the ax!

le shaft spacers that would deliver some of the impact back through the fork doubler. Or both.  

 When it comes to the nose gear tube folding back, perhaps having a much wider bearing contact area, (flange bearing ?), may help as this would spread the side (back) force to eliminate the pressure point effect of the 1/4" thick nylon lower bearing. This might eliminate the consequence of the initial denting to the side wall of the tube which weakens it's design strength, allowing the tube wall to collapse.

These are just my thoughts, please pick them apart, any and all comments are welcome for the safety of our sport. 

 Thanks in advance and Merry Ho Ho .........  Don



Hi Don,



We had a inquiry from a 701 owner in the past but no one has installed our nose gear on a 701 to date. The steering shaft is (OD 1-3/8 X .095 thk and 22â€ long) We can make some modifications if needed. A 1-7/8 X .250 thk 4130 tube cut into bushings will adapted our nose gear to the 2â€ tube. (PN 03-10600 McMaster Carr). We are using 4 springs with different spring rates instead of heavy and expensive hydraulic damping systems. The rebound has not been reported as an issue to date.



Thank you

Wade  Custom Flight Systems.



--------

Zenith 701 #76120

Jabiru 2200A #2456  55 hours

Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 78589#278589

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