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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Where did you put them? On the leading edge or back near the elevator?
Sounds like a good idea.
Scott
--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Vortex Generators
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 4:09 PM
All;
I installed Vortex generators on the bottom of my KIS4 elevator. It made no difference on climb or cruise that I could tell but on a BIG difference on approach and landing. I had a significant increase in elevator authority at low airspeed and could keep the nose at a higher attitude than before all the way to touchdown. This was especially evident when I easily kept the nose off the runway for a good 500ft after touchdown. The nose wheel finally touched down at a significantly slower speed than I had been able to do before. Before the VG installation, no matter how hard I tried to keep the nose wheel off the runway, as soon as the mains touched the nose came firmly down.
I used the STOLSPEED Vortex Generators available at Aircraft Spruce: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/stolspeed.php
The hardest part of the entire installation was trimming the provided 3M dual side tape once I painted them.  )
Galin
N819PR
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Scott;
They go on the rear of the tail with the VGs 4" in front of the gap between the elevator and the stabilizer. Here is an image of where they go looking up at the tail. I only had 4 VGs left over when the job was completed. I will take a picture and post it on my web page. Remember, they go on the BOTTOM of the tail.
Galin
N819PR
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Where did you put them? On the leading edge or back near the elevator?
Sounds like a good idea.
Scott
--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
Subject: Vortex Generators
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 4:09 PM
All;
I installed Vortex generators on the bottom of my KIS4 elevator. It made no difference on climb or cruise that I could tell but on a BIG difference on approach and landing. I had a significant increase in elevator authority at low airspeed and could keep the nose at a higher attitude than before all the way to touchdown. This was especially evident when I easily kept the nose off the runway for a good 500ft after touchdown. The nose wheel finally touched down at a significantly slower speed than I had been able to do before. Before the VG installation, no matter how hard I tried to keep the nose wheel off the runway, as soon as the mains touched the nose came firmly down.
I used the STOLSPEED Vortex Generators available at Aircraft Spruce: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/stolspeed.php
The hardest part of the entire installation was trimming the provided 3M dual side tape once I painted them. )
Galin
N819PR
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_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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I made the elevator on my two place with an extra 2" of chord to get more pitch control. The VGs are a good idea too. That seems to me to be the perfect place for them.
Scott
--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Vortex Generators
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 4:58 PM
Scott;
They go on the rear of the tail with the VGs 4" in front of the gap between the elevator and the stabilizer. Here is an image of where they go looking up at the tail. I only had 4 VGs left over when the job was completed. I will take a picture and post it on my web page. Remember, they go on the BOTTOM of the tail.
Galin
N819PR
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Where did you put them? On the leading edge or back near the elevator?
Sounds like a good idea.
Scott
--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
Subject: Vortex Generators
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 4:09 PM
All;
I installed Vortex generators on the bottom of my KIS4 elevator. It made no difference on climb or cruise that I could tell but on a BIG difference on approach and landing. I had a significant increase in elevator authority at low airspeed and could keep the nose at a higher attitude than before all the way to touchdown. This was especially evident when I easily kept the nose off the runway for a good 500ft after touchdown. The nose wheel finally touched down at a significantly slower speed than I had been able to do before. Before the VG installation, no matter how hard I tried to keep the nose wheel off the runway, as soon as the mains touched the nose came firmly down.
I used the STOLSPEED Vortex Generators available at Aircraft Spruce: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/stolspeed.php
The hardest part of the entire installation was trimming the provided 3M dual side tape once I painted them. )
Galin
N819PR
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| Quote: |
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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[quote][b]
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Mine was already built so I didn't have that option. )
Galin
N819PR
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] I made the elevator on my two place with an extra 2" of chord to get more pitch control. The VGs are a good idea too. That seems to me to be the perfect place for them.
Scott
--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>
Subject: Re: Vortex Generators
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 4:58 PM
Scott;
They go on the rear of the tail with the VGs 4" in front of the gap between the elevator and the stabilizer. Here is an image of where they go looking up at the tail. I only had 4 VGs left over when the job was completed. I will take a picture and post it on my web page. Remember, they go on the BOTTOM of the tail.
Galin
N819PR
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Where did you put them? On the leading edge or back near the elevator?
Sounds like a good idea.
Scott
--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Vortex Generators
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 4:09 PM
All;
I installed Vortex generators on the bottom of my KIS4 elevator. It made no difference on climb or cruise that I could tell but on a BIG difference on approach and landing. I had a significant increase in elevator authority at low airspeed and could keep the nose at a higher attitude than before all the way to touchdown. This was especially evident when I easily kept the nose off the runway for a good 500ft after touchdown. The nose wheel finally touched down at a significantly slower speed than I had been able to do before. Before the VG installation, no matter how hard I tried to keep the nose wheel off the runway, as soon as the mains touched the nose came firmly down.
I used the STOLSPEED Vortex Generators available at Aircraft Spruce: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/stolspeed.php
The hardest part of the entire installation was trimming the provided 3M dual side tape once I painted them. )
Galin
N819PR
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_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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kentpyle(at)iland.net
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Galin, I had the same results. The elevator seemed soft upon trying to flair. With the installation of the generators, the elevator seems much firmed. I glued mine in place with shoe goo. Kent
w
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:13 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Shoe-goo, now THAT is an idea. Was it a messy or a fairly clean install? I totally agree that the elevator seems much firmer at the low speed and at the flare. I am sold on them.
Galin
N819PR
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Kent Pyle <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
[quote] Galin, I had the same results. The elevator seemed soft upon trying to flair. With the installation of the generators, the elevator seems much firmed. I glued mine in place with shoe goo. Kent
w
[quote] ---
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kentpyle(at)iland.net
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Galin, any of the goo's obtained at the hardware store should work. I put the goo on a popsickle stick so I could control the amount. Keep the goo in the center of the generator so when pressed in place it will create a mess. A piece of paper towel will help control any mess. ( I had very little smearing. Kent
[quote] ---
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76papa(at)dishmail.net
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:33 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Do you lose any speed in cruise with them?
Al
[quote] | Quote: | On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Kent Pyle <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin, I had the same results. The elevator seemed soft upon trying to flair. With the installation of the generators, the elevator seems much firmed. I glued mine in place with shoe goo. Kent
w
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[b]
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Al;
Not that I can tell but I haven't made any tests for actual data.
Galin
N819PR
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Alfred Rosa <76papa(at)dishmail.net (76papa(at)dishmail.net)> wrote:
[quote] Do you lose any speed in cruise with them?
Al
| Quote: | | Quote: | On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Kent Pyle <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Galin, I had the same results. The elevator seemed soft upon trying to flair. With the installation of the generators, the elevator seems much firmed. I glued mine in place with shoe goo. Kent
w
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|
"_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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[b]
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kentpyle(at)iland.net
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Not that I can determine. Kent
[quote] ---
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Flyinisfun(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:54 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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This is Jesse Wright and have been reading the results of V.T. generators on the elevator stab. underneath. This has been one of my problems in a flair. The elevator is so soft that I loose where I am at with it and over control because I can's feel anything. Has anyone tried them on the 2 place and would they be installed about the same location, about 4 inches forward of the hinge line?
Jesse
[quote][b]
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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12/15/2009
Hello Jesse, What are you doing with your engine RPM during the final stages
of the approach and during the flare?
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
=================================================
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Jesse;
As far as I can tell they would also be about 4" forward of the hinge line. But I would contact STOLSPEED (stolspeed(at)gmail.com (stolspeed(at)gmail.com)) directly and ask them just to be sure.
Galin
N819PR
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 6:44 PM, <Flyinisfun(at)aol.com (Flyinisfun(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] This is Jesse Wright and have been reading the results of V.T. generators on the elevator stab. underneath. This has been one of my problems in a flair. The elevator is so soft that I loose where I am at with it and over control because I can's feel anything. Has anyone tried them on the 2 place and would they be installed about the same location, about 4 inches forward of the hinge line?
Jesse
| Quote: |
"_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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[b]
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kentpyle(at)iland.net
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Jessie, not being an aeronautical engineer, I can not say for sure, however, I think they would work just fine for your two place. The four inch placement may or may not be the correct spacing. Read the instruction and they should tell you the correct placement. The bottom of the surface is the correct placement. Kent
[quote] ---
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randy.ott(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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I put the vortex generators on my Tr-1.
Big big difference! Wow , I now have elavator authority at slow speeds.
I was only able to do 4 touch and goes because of fog moving in, but I was able to land and stop in tthe first 1000 feet of runway for
The first time ever! I placed the leading edge of the generator 4 inches forward of the elevator gap. I have
The O320 engine configuration. More testing to come... Initial results are fantastic!
Randy
N96BT. Tr1
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 16, 2009, at 3:40 PM, "Kent Pyle" <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
[quote] Jessie, not being an aeronautical engineer, I can not say for sure, however, I think they would work just fine for your two place. The four inch placement may or may not be the correct spacing. Read the instruction and they should tell you the correct placement. The bottom of the surface is the correct placement. Kent
[quote] ---
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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Randy,
Do you have the original elevator size or did you build in the aprox 1" cord extension?
I have the extension and have plenty of elevator authority. On slow speed landings I run out of aileron control with a cross wind,
but still have plenty of elevator.
If I didn't have the extension I think I would try the Vortex Generators before rebuilding the elevator.
I also regularly use 'OC's' procedure of adding a little power on short final, to kill a high sink rate.
Tim
N52TY TR-1
[quote] ---
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randy.ott(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Yes I have the original elevator!
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 21, 2009, at 12:19 PM, "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
[quote] Randy,
Do you have the original elevator size or did you build in the aprox 1" cord extension?
I have the extension and have plenty of elevator authority. On slow speed landings I run out of aileron control with a cross wind,
but still have plenty of elevator.
If I didn't have the extension I think I would try the Vortex Generators before rebuilding the elevator.
I also regularly use 'OC's' procedure of adding a little power on short final, to kill a high sink rate.
Tim
N52TY TR-1
[quote] ---
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kentpyle(at)iland.net
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Randy, good news! I thought this was simpler than adding to the elevator cord. Kent
[quote] ---
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:36 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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All;
I put pictures of the VG installation on my web page.
http://puertoricoflyer.com/cgi-bin/photoalbum/view_photo/2529251
http://puertoricoflyer.com/cgi-bin/photoalbum/view_photo/2529250
Galin
N819PR
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Kent Pyle <kentpyle(at)iland.net (kentpyle(at)iland.net)> wrote:
[quote] Randy, good news! I thought this was simpler than adding to the elevator cord. Kent
[quote] ---
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