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Oil Injection reservoir size?

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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: Oil Injection reservoir size?

What size oil injection reservoir are you two stroke people running?  I am still gathering to convert my premix engine.



The rotax installation manual says the oil reservoir should be a minimum of 5% of the fuel capacity.  I have 21 gallon fuel capacity so that works out to a little over a gallon oil reservoir.  That seems like a lot of extra weight if I filled it up.



The tank I am looking at is 2.5 liters which would be enough oil for about 35 gallons of fuel.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: Oil Injection reservoir size?

On Wed, December 16, 2009 4:12 pm, Tom Jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 What size oil injection reservoir are you two stroke people running?  I am still

 gathering to convert my premix engine.


	


I assume you mean you're converting from using pre-mix to oil injection.



 	  Quote: 	
		   The rotax installation manual says the oil reservoir should be a minimum of 5% of the

 fuel capacity.


	


That seems a little high to me when the engine runs 50:1 (2% oil) and close to 100:1

at low power settings. Maybe they mean 2% of the fuel capacity plus an additional 5%.

So 2% of 21 gallons is 0.42 gallons plus 5% of the 0.42 gallons which is another 0.021

gallons. The total oil then would be 0.42 + 0.021 = 0.441 gallons of oil. A little

under half a gallon. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to size the oil tank for a 20:1

mix. But then again, I haven't been flying behind one either.



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have 21 gallon fuel capacity so that works out to a little over a

 gallon oil reservoir.  That seems like a lot of extra weight if I filled it up.



 The tank I am looking at is 2.5 liters which would be enough oil for about 35 gallons

 of fuel.


	


That's well over the minimum required for 21 gallons of fuel assuming it runs 50:1

most of the time. The oil weighs approx 6.8 lbs/gal so half gallon isn't an extreme

weight burden. You'd be carrying that weight anyway if you premixed. It might be nice

to size the oil tank for a typical round trip so you don't have to carry as much in

bottles loose in the cockpit. Maybe size the oil tank for some amount of flight time,

like 6 or 8 hours.

-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

425.440.9505 Office



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_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Oil Injection reservoir size?

I got the KF oil tank from John Mcb at kitfox.  It is a pain to take off my boot cowl every time I fill up so I like having the extra oil capacity.  A few extra pounds are worth the hassle to me.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Oil Injection reservoir size?

 	  akflyer wrote: 	
		  I got the KF oil tank from John Mcb at kitfox.  It is a pain to take off my boot cowl every time I fill up so I like having the extra oil capacity.  A few extra pounds are worth the hassle to me. 	




Tell me more about the KF oil tank.  Size, where does it mount, mounting bracket?

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: Oil Injection reservoir size?

At 04:12 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  What size oil injection reservoir are you two stroke people 

running?  I am still gathering to convert my premix engine.


	


I've been running two liters for the past few years. As Paul says, it 

just means you carry more in the baggage compartment when you want to 

go long. I've run as long as 4 1/2 hours between re-fills with no 

problem. Supposedly I could go longer, but I don't, so I don't really 

need more capacity.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV/1200 w/ 582 C-box & Warp 3 blade

100% and flying thanks mostly to Bob Ducar

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: Oil Injection reservoir size?

Tom, My tank mounts on the top of the firewall behind the 582 Rotax engine. My plane was built with a 912 engine and a door on the top of the cowling. The door is directly over the oil reservoir filler cap. I don't have to remove the cowling to check or add oil. Worked out great. I did mount the tank a 1/2" too high and had to lower it to clear the door hinge.

   

 Pat Reilly

 mod 3582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL   

 On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Tom Jones <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net (nahsikhs(at)elltel.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net (nahsikhs(at)elltel.net)>

 



akflyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I got the KF oil tank from John Mcb at kitfox.  It is a pain to take off my boot cowl every time I fill up so I like having the extra oil capacity.  A few extra pounds are worth the hassle to me.

 
	




Tell me more about the KF oil tank.  Size, where does it mount, mounting bracket?



--------

Tom Jones

Classic IV

503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

Ellensburg, WA





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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Oil Injection reservoir size?

Mine is on the back side of the firewall, mounts with Adel clamps.  I will get some pics of it when I get home next week.  Some cowlings have an oil door in the them, but mine doesnt.  I keep it outside and dont need another water leak in the cabin.  I like being able to run long trips and not have to refill the oil.  Last one I brought 6 extra Qts with me and did not use one of them till I got back home.  I burned 70 gallons of fuel and used less than half the oil.



I think the tank was 90 bucks or something like that from KF.

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:06 pm Post subject: Oil Injection reservoir size?

Lennie, My tank is on the front of the firewall so any leaks would not enter the cabin. I mounted mine where a felow out in Maine that sold me the tank had his. He sent me pictures. 

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:31 PM, akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com (akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com (akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com)>

 

Mine is on the back side of the firewall, mounts with Adel clamps.  I will get some pics of it when I get home next week.  Some cowlings have an oil door in the them, but mine doesnt.  I keep it outside and dont need another water leak in the cabin.  I like being able to run long trips and not have to refill the oil.  Last one I brought 6 extra Qts with me and did not use one of them till I got back home.  I burned 70 gallons of fuel and used less than half the oil.

 

I think the tank was 90 bucks or something like that from KF.



--------

DO NOT ARCHIVE

Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

Soldotna AK

Avid "C" / Mk IV

582 (87 hrs and counting on the rebuild)

IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277960#277960

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[b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Injection reservoir size?

Guys,  a properly adjusted 582 oil injection will only give 50 to 1 ratio at wide open throttle NOT all the time.

In cruise you might see 65 to 1 to 70 to 1 area.  

At idle closer to 90 to 1 or 100 to 1 .



The oil injection ratio  is dependant on throttle position. 



Pictures of injection bottom mounting on Kitfox. 



http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=156

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Injection reservoir size?

 	  dave wrote: 	
		  Guys,  a properly adjusted 582 oil injection will only give 50 to 1 ratio at wide open throttle NOT all the time.

In cruise you might see 65 to 1 to 70 to 1 area.  

At idle closer to 90 to 1 or 100 to 1 .



The oil injection ratio  is dependant on throttle position. 



Pictures of injection bottom mounting on Kitfox. 



http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=156 	




news flash on the bold huh :snack:



thought we kicked the crud outa this one last week.

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: Oil Injection reservoir size?

Kitfoxers, I have the oil reserve bottle pictured. If someone needs it, you can have it for $10 + shipping.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM, akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com (akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com (akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com)>

 



dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Guys,  a properly adjusted 582 oil injection will only give 50 to 1 ratio at wide open throttle NOT all the time.

 In cruise you might see 65 to 1 to 70 to 1 area.

 At idle closer to 90 to 1 or 100 to 1 .

 >
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   The oil injection ratio  is dependant on throttle position.



 Pictures of injection bottom mounting on Kitfox.



 http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=156

 
	




news flash on the bold huh :snack:



thought we kicked the crud outa this one last week.

 



--------

DO NOT ARCHIVE

Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

Soldotna AK

Avid "C" / Mk IV

582 (87 hrs and counting on the rebuild)

 IVO IFA

Full Lotus 1450

#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277987#277987

 ber is the Annual List Fund Raiser.  Click on

 -=     * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com

 omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com

  http:/r generous support!

 ronics List Features Navigator to browse

 s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ==============



[b]

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Injection reservoir size?

 	  akflyer wrote: 	
		  Mine is on the back side of the firewall, mounts with Adel clamps.  I will get some pics of it when I get home next week.  Some cowlings have an oil door in the them, but mine doesnt.  I keep it outside and dont need another water leak in the cabin.  I like being able to run long trips and not have to refill the oil.  Last one I brought 6 extra Qts with me and did not use one of them till I got back home.  I burned 70 gallons of fuel and used less than half the oil.



I think the tank was 90 bucks or something like that from KF. 	




Thanks, I would like to see this setup.  I have a panel tank so probably not enough room behind the fire wall, but plenty in front.  Behind the fire wall would probably be better if there is room as my cg is nearer the forward limit.



I plan to fabricate an oil door for checking and adding oil.

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Oil Injection reservoir size?

Tom, 



My oil bottle is on front side of firewall. I just put up a movie and when we take off you can see the access door for oil bottle.

Let me know if you need a better pic of it .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLKDyCSmo7s

 	  Tom Jones wrote: 	
		   	  akflyer wrote: 	
		  Mine is on the back side of the firewall, mounts with Adel clamps.  I will get some pics of it when I get home next week.  Some cowlings have an oil door in the them, but mine doesnt.  I keep it outside and dont need another water leak in the cabin.  I like being able to run long trips and not have to refill the oil.  Last one I brought 6 extra Qts with me and did not use one of them till I got back home.  I burned 70 gallons of fuel and used less than half the oil.



I think the tank was 90 bucks or something like that from KF. 	




Thanks, I would like to see this setup.  I have a panel tank so probably not enough room behind the fire wall, but plenty in front.  Behind the fire wall would probably be better if there is room as my cg is nearer the forward limit.



I plan to fabricate an oil door for checking and adding oil.

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