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n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:24 am Post subject: 680FP

Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQitemZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42

_________________
Milt

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: 680FP

That is one beautiful machine. 

With only 3,700 hours on the airframe this may even be considered new,

right?

Nico

--

moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: 680FP

This was Jerry Sprayberry's plane.  I use to talk to Jerry fairly often, and 

he attended at least one of our events.  I noticed that this is an estate 

sale.....does this mean that CaptnSpray is no longer with us?



Moe

N680RR

680F(p)

--------------------------------------------------

From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>

Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:24 AM

To: <commander-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: 680FP



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>



 Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who.



 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQitemZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42



 --------

 Milt





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 78059#278059

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: 680FP

Moe,



I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA, which is close to Summerville. I

didn't know capnspray personally, but I found this online:



Jerry Sprayberry



SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70, died Saturday, April 4, 2009.



Survivors, children, Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez,

Cynthia Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; three

great-grandchildren.



Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home,

Summerville.



Visitation is noon on Wednesday.



I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry, but if it is indeed he who went

west, Godspeed. I hope one of our listers becomes the steward of his

airplane.



/John 



--

moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: 680FP

John,



Sadly, this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry.  He was really a 

nice guy.



If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a good idea to do a 

complete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic system.



Regards,



Moe



--------------------------------------------------

From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>

Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:41 AM

To: <commander-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: 680FP



[quote] 



 Moe,



 I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA, which is close to Summerville. 

 I

 didn't know capnspray personally, but I found this online:



 Jerry Sprayberry



 SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70, died Saturday, April 4, 2009.



 Survivors, children, Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez,

 Cynthia Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; three

 great-grandchildren.



 Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home,

 Summerville.



 Visitation is noon on Wednesday.



 I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry, but if it is indeed he who went

 west, Godspeed. I hope one of our listers becomes the steward of his

 airplane.



 /John



 --

n55bz(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: 680FP

Jerry Sprayberry died last Spring. He was an active participant in the Coast 

Guard Auxiliary and was awarded a plaque for his service (posthumously) at 

the annual Eight Coast Guard safety meeting at the CGAS New Orleans in June.



He was a good guy and freely shared his experiences with anyone interested 

enough to ask.



He is sorely missed.



Kindest regards,



Bill

---

yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:36 pm Post subject: 680FP

SAD, Jerry was a really nice guy.  He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a nice airplane.  jb

 

 

   --

moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:03 am Post subject: 680FP

Hi,

  

 Does anyone know of a good substitute for  Loctite 404?  This is the glue that is used to fuse two "O" ring parts  together when making an odd dia. ring from bulk "O" ring material.  The 404  works great, however, it is very expensive by the time I get it here, has a  shelf life, and is supposed to be refegriated after opening.  This is not  to be used on my airplane, rather it is to be used on my 1949 Hudson "Rat Rod"  which I am making a gasket set for.  I need something that is good, as it  is really hard to get to the places where the "O" rings  go.

  

 Also, for some reason I can no longer  make an original post to this forum, and can only answer other posts.  Does  anyone have a solution to this problem?

  

 Moe

 N680RR

 680Fp

  

  



  From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com (yourtcfg(at)aol.com) 

 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:35 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: Re: 680FP

 



SAD, Jerry was a really  nice guy.  He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a nice  airplane.  jb

 -----Original  Message-----

From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com (moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com)>

To:  commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent:  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 12:33 pm

Subject: Re: 680FP



 -->  Commander-List message posted by: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com (moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com)> 

 

John, 

 

Sadly,  this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry. He was really a nice  guy. 

 

If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a good  idea to do a complete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic  system. 

 

Regards, 

 

Moe 

 

-------------------------------------------------- 

From:  "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com (john(at)vormbaum.com)> 

Sent: Sunday,  December 20, 2009 10:41 AM 

To: <commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)> 

Subject:  RE: 680FP 

 

[quote] --> Commander-List message  posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com (john(at)vormbaum.com)> 

 

  Moe, 

 

 I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA,  which is close to Summerville. > I 

 didn't know capnspray  personally, but I found this online: 

 

 Jerry  Sprayberry 

 

 SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70,  died Saturday, April 4, 2009. 

 

 Survivors, children,  Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, 

 Cynthia  Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; three 

  great-grandchildren. 

 

 Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday,  April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, 

  Summerville. 

 

 Visitation is noon on  Wednesday. 

 

 I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry,  but if it is indeed he who went 

 west, Godspeed. I hope one of our  listers becomes the steward of his 

  airplane. 

 

 /John 

 

  --

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:13 am Post subject: 680FP

Moe,  

Have you tried unsubscribing and resubscribing to the list? That might fix it. Worth trying before you contact our esteemed host/moderator anyway... 

Sent by my DROID. 

[quote]On Dec 21, 2009 12:06 AM, "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com (moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:



     Hi,

  

 Does anyone know of a good substitute for  Loctite 404?  This is the glue that is used to fuse two "O" ring parts  together when making an odd dia. ring from bulk "O" ring material.  The 404  works great, however, it is very expensive by the time I get it here, has a  shelf life, and is supposed to be refegriated after opening.  This is not  to be used on my airplane, rather it is to be used on my 1949 Hudson "Rat Rod"  which I am making a gasket set for.  I need something that is good, as it  is really hard to get to the places where the "O" rings  go.

  

 Also, for some reason I can no longer  make an original post to this forum, and can only answer other posts.  Does  anyone have a solution to this problem?

  

 Moe

 N680RR

 680Fp

  

  



  From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com (yourtcfg(at)aol.com) 

 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:35 PM



 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: 680FP

  SAD, Jerry was a really nice guy.  He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a nice airp... 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	


   [quote][b]

tylorhall(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:24 am Post subject: 680FP

Moe,We use super glue.  We make o rings from bulk stock for our filter housings.  Works great.

Tylor Hall



On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:03 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote:

[quote]  Hi,

  

 Does anyone know of a good substitute for  Loctite 404?  This is the glue that is used to fuse two "O" ring parts  together when making an odd dia. ring from bulk "O" ring material.  The 404  works great, however, it is very expensive by the time I get it here, has a  shelf life, and is supposed to be refegriated after opening.  This is not  to be used on my airplane, rather it is to be used on my 1949 Hudson "Rat Rod"  which I am making a gasket set for.  I need something that is good, as it  is really hard to get to the places where the "O" rings  go.

  

 Also, for some reason I can no longer  make an original post to this forum, and can only answer other posts.  Does  anyone have a solution to this problem?

  

 Moe

 N680RR

 680Fp

  

  



  From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com (yourtcfg(at)aol.com) 

 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:35 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: Re: 680FP

 



SAD, Jerry was a really  nice guy.  He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a nice  airplane.  jb

 -----Original  Message-----

From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com (moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com)>

To:  commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent:  Sun, Dec 20, 2009 12:33 pm

Subject: Re: 680FP



 -->  Commander-List message posted by: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com (moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com)> 

 

John, 

 

Sadly,  this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry. He was really a nice  guy. 

 

If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a good  idea to do a complete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic  system. 

 

Regards, 

 

Moe 

 

-------------------------------------------------- 

From:  "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com (john(at)vormbaum.com)> 

Sent: Sunday,  December 20, 2009 10:41 AM 

To: <commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)> 

Subject:  RE: 680FP 

 

[quote] --> Commander-List message  posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com (john(at)vormbaum.com)> 

 

  Moe, 

 

 I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA,  which is close to Summerville. > I 

 didn't know capnspray  personally, but I found this online: 

 

 Jerry  Sprayberry 

 

 SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70,  died Saturday, April 4, 2009. 

 

 Survivors, children,  Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, 

 Cynthia  Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; three 

  great-grandchildren. 

 

 Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday,  April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, 

  Summerville. 

 

 Visitation is noon on  Wednesday. 

 

 I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry,  but if it is indeed he who went 

 west, Godspeed. I hope one of our  listers becomes the steward of his 

  airplane. 

 

 /John 

 

  --

moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: 680FP

Thanks Tylor, I suspected that it would,  but didn't want to experiment on something that is so time  consuming.

  

 Regards,

  

 Moe

  

  



  From: Tylor Hall (tylorhall(at)mac.com) 

 Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:23 AM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: Re: 680FP

 



Moe,  We use super glue.  We make o rings from bulk stock for our filter  housings.  Works great.

 Tylor Hall

 



 

  On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:03 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote:

 [quote]      Hi,

    

   Does anyone know of a good substitute    for Loctite 404?  This is the glue that is used to fuse two "O" ring    parts together when making an odd dia. ring from bulk "O" ring material.     The 404 works great, however, it is very expensive by the time I get it here,    has a shelf life, and is supposed to be refegriated after opening.  This    is not to be used on my airplane, rather it is to be used on my 1949 Hudson    "Rat Rod" which I am making a gasket set for.  I need something that is    good, as it is really hard to get to the places where the "O" rings    go.

    

   Also, for some reason I can no longer    make an original post to this forum, and can only answer other posts.     Does anyone have a solution to this problem?

    

   Moe

   N680RR

   680Fp

    

      



      From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com (yourtcfg(at)aol.com) 

   Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:35 PM

   To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)    

   Subject: Re: 680FP

   



SAD, Jerry was a    really nice guy.  He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a    nice airplane.  jb

   -----Original    Message-----

From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com (moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com)>

To:    commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent:    Sun, Dec 20, 2009 12:33 pm

Subject: Re: 680FP



   -->    Commander-List message posted by: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com (moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com)> 

 

John, 

 

Sadly,    this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry. He was really a nice    guy. 

 

If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a    good idea to do a complete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic    system. 

 

Regards, 

 

Moe 

 

-------------------------------------------------- 

From:    "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com (john(at)vormbaum.com)> 

Sent:    Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:41 AM 

To: <commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)> 

Subject:    RE: 680FP 

 

[quote] --> Commander-List    message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com (john(at)vormbaum.com)> 

 

    Moe, 

 

 I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA,    which is close to Summerville. > I 

 didn't know capnspray    personally, but I found this online: 

 

 Jerry    Sprayberry 

 

 SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70,    died Saturday, April 4, 2009. 

 

 Survivors, children,    Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, 

 Cynthia    Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren;    three 

 great-grandchildren. 

 

 Funeral    is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, 

    Summerville. 

 

 Visitation is noon on    Wednesday. 

 

 I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry,    but if it is indeed he who went 

 west, Godspeed. I hope one of    our listers becomes the steward of his 

    airplane. 

 

 /John 

 

    --

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:48 am Post subject: Re: 680FP

Moe - can you give me some real life figures for the 680FP as a travel machine?



Cruising speed up high?



Fuel burn up high?



What is a realistic cruising altitude with the pressurization? 20K or can you go higher?

_________________
Adam

moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: 680FP

Adam,

 

Good to hear from you.

 

The plane likes 16,000 to 18,000.  I have never flown above 17999 feet as I never have high altitude charts on board.  At 17,500 you should be able to keep about a 10,000 FT cabin.

 

There is a placard which advises that you must depressurize at 21,000 (maybe 21,500 can't remember since I never go up there)  I really like 17,000 eastbound and 16,000  westbound or 17.5 and 16.5 if VFR.  This is a good altitude as the Cessna 150's and so fourth don't back into me and I don't back into the Lears.  Most of the aircraft at this altitude will cruse at about the same Speed that I do.

 

If you are thinking of getting one please consider, that since you seem to get out and travel quite a bit, a Stormsope (or weather radar) is almost a must.  Also, since you seem to go to the east quite a bit, where the clouds start at about 500 feet AGL and go up to heaven, hot props, windshield alcohol, boots, heated fuel vents, and heated stall warning horn are almost a must.  If properly equipped you are then certified known icing.  Ironically, my worst icing horror story was when I was VFR and encountered freezing rain.  All of these toys are pretty expensive to keep up.  In the real world the storm scopes have probably saved my life only twice in the last 18 to 20 years, and the de-ice equipment has save me only a couple of times in the last 12 years, however, since I hold myself in high personal regard, and try to avoid personal injury and death at all cost the few extra thousand dollars has been well worth it.  

 

Fuel burn on a three hour trip will be almost 55 gallons per hour.  Given the cost of fuel today that is most likely the biggest down side to a 680F(p).  Keep in mind also that the IGSO540B1A (or C) engines are about the shortest TBO of anything that Lycoming makes (only 1,200 hours) and they are pretty expensive to overhaul.  These geared engines will serve you  well if you fly them correctly.  The upside is that 380 HP per wing is a good thing.  Several years ago I had an engine out at Night, 500 AGL on take off and it was a non event, with less power the outcome may have been very different.

 

If you are considering buying one feel free to call me CELL # 310-350-4594.  There is at least one on the market which has a pretty bad history of engine problems.  

 

Speed at the above altitudes and fuel burn is about 190 Knots.

 

Regards,

 

Moe

N680RR 

 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: 680FP

 From: adam(at)adamfrisch.com

 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 09:48:47 -0700

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>

 

 Moe - can you give me some real life figures for the 680FP as a travel machine?

 

 Cruising speed up high?

 

 Fuel burn up high?

 

 What is a realistic cruising altitude with the pressurization? 20K or can you go higher?

 

 --------

 Adam

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374862#374862

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

&=========
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject: 680FP

Hi Moe, 

This is very valuable and interesting information. Would you be so kind and also post this on our facebook page?

go to:

www.facebook.com/commanderflight like the page and post it. 

That will be useful to all Commander fans.

 

Thanks,

 

Nico

 

 

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 11:37 PM

To: Com

Subject: RE: Re: 680FP

 

Adam,

 

Good to hear from you.

 

The plane likes 16,000 to 18,000.  I have never flown above 17999 feet as I never have high altitude charts on board.  At 17,500 you should be able to keep about a 10,000 FT cabin.

 

There is a placard which advises that you must depressurize at 21,000 (maybe 21,500 can't remember since I never go up there)  I really like 17,000 eastbound and 16,000  westbound or 17.5 and 16.5 if VFR.  This is a good altitude as the Cessna 150's and so fourth don't back into me and I don't back into the Lears.  Most of the aircraft at this altitude will cruse at about the same Speed that I do.

 

If you are thinking of getting one please consider, that since you seem to get out and travel quite a bit, a Stormsope (or weather radar) is almost a must.  Also, since you seem to go to the east quite a bit, where the clouds start at about 500 feet AGL and go up to heaven, hot props, windshield alcohol, boots, heated fuel vents, and heated stall warning horn are almost a must.  If properly equipped you are then certified known icing.  Ironically, my worst icing horror story was when I was VFR and encountered freezing rain.  All of these toys are pretty expensive to keep up.  In the real world the storm scopes have probably saved my life only twice in the last 18 to 20 years, and the de-ice equipment has save me only a couple of times in the last 12 years, however, since I hold myself in high personal regard, and try to avoid personal injury and death at all cost the few extra thousand dollars has been well worth it.  

 

Fuel burn on a three hour trip will be almost 55 gallons per hour.  Given the cost of fuel today that is most likely the biggest down side to a 680F(p).  Keep in mind also that the IGSO540B1A (or C) engines are about the shortest TBO of anything that Lycoming makes (only 1,200 hours) and they are pretty expensive to overhaul.  These geared engines will serve you  well if you fly them correctly.  The upside is that 380 HP per wing is a good thing.  Several years ago I had an engine out at Night, 500 AGL on take off and it was a non event, with less power the outcome may have been very different.

 

If you are considering buying one feel free to call me CELL # 310-350-4594.  There is at least one on the market which has a pretty bad history of engine problems.  

 

Speed at the above altitudes and fuel burn is about 190 Knots.

 

Regards,

 

Moe

N680RR 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: 680FP

 From: adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)

 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 09:48:47 -0700

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)

 

 --> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)>

 

 Moe - can you give me some real life figures for the 680FP as a travel machine?

 

 Cruising speed up high?

 

 Fuel burn up high?

 

 What is a realistic cruising altitude with the pressurization? 20K or can you go higher?

 

 --------

 Adam

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374862#374862

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

&=========
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


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  [quote][b]

rcdettmer(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: 680FP

Good information from Moe.  I get pretty much the same performance from my 680F (non-pressurized).  Typically, I fly at between 10K and 12K with 52-55 gph and 190 kts true.

 

Randy Dettmer

680F / N6253X

 

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CD4549.29962F90[/img]

 

Dettmer Architecture

663 Hill Street

San Luis Obispo, CA  93405

805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865

www.dettmerarchitecture.com



 

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cybersuperstore

Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 10:11 PM

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: 680FP

 

Hi Moe, 

This is very valuable and interesting information. Would you be so kind and also post this on our facebook page?

go to:

www.facebook.com/commanderflight like the page and post it. 

That will be useful to all Commander fans.

 

Thanks,

 

Nico

 

 

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Moe Mills

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 11:37 PM

To: Com

Subject: RE: Re: 680FP

 

Adam,

 

Good to hear from you.

 

The plane likes 16,000 to 18,000.  I have never flown above 17999 feet as I never have high altitude charts on board.  At 17,500 you should be able to keep about a 10,000 FT cabin.

 

There is a placard which advises that you must depressurize at 21,000 (maybe 21,500 can't remember since I never go up there)  I really like 17,000 eastbound and 16,000  westbound or 17.5 and 16.5 if VFR.  This is a good altitude as the Cessna 150's and so fourth don't back into me and I don't back into the Lears.  Most of the aircraft at this altitude will cruse at about the same Speed that I do.

 

If you are thinking of getting one please consider, that since you seem to get out and travel quite a bit, a Stormsope (or weather radar) is almost a must.  Also, since you seem to go to the east quite a bit, where the clouds start at about 500 feet AGL and go up to heaven, hot props, windshield alcohol, boots, heated fuel vents, and heated stall warning horn are almost a must.  If properly equipped you are then certified known icing.  Ironically, my worst icing horror story was when I was VFR and encountered freezing rain.  All of these toys are pretty expensive to keep up.  In the real world the storm scopes have probably saved my life only twice in the last 18 to 20 years, and the de-ice equipment has save me only a couple of times in the last 12 years, however, since I hold myself in high personal regard, and try to avoid personal injury and death at all cost the few extra thousand dollars has been well worth it.  

 

Fuel burn on a three hour trip will be almost 55 gallons per hour.  Given the cost of fuel today that is most likely the biggest down side to a 680F(p).  Keep in mind also that the IGSO540B1A (or C) engines are about the shortest TBO of anything that Lycoming makes (only 1,200 hours) and they are pretty expensive to overhaul.  These geared engines will serve you  well if you fly them correctly.  The upside is that 380 HP per wing is a good thing.  Several years ago I had an engine out at Night, 500 AGL on take off and it was a non event, with less power the outcome may have been very different.

 

If you are considering buying one feel free to call me CELL # 310-350-4594.  There is at least one on the market which has a pretty bad history of engine problems.  

 

Speed at the above altitudes and fuel burn is about 190 Knots.

 

Regards,

 

Moe

N680RR 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: 680FP

 From: adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)

 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 09:48:47 -0700

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)

 

 --> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)>

 

 Moe - can you give me some real life figures for the 680FP as a travel machine?

 

 Cruising speed up high?

 

 Fuel burn up high?

 

 What is a realistic cruising altitude with the pressurization? 20K or can you go higher?

 

 --------

 Adam

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374862#374862

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

&=========
	


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stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:58 am Post subject: Re: 680FP

Thanks, Moe. 



55gals?? Wow. Sounds like a lot. The Aerostar 702P running at 250kts burns about that. I guess the engines here are bigger and it's a bigger airframe, but still...



Anyway, good info. Yes, I would like to get something a bit faster and pressurized down the road. Every time I get groped and hassled by TSA agents on my travels, I think "I could be sitting in my own plane and not have to deal with all this c**p" listening to a podcast up high. Door to door travel times with a fast, pressurized all weather twin would be negligibly slower over most of the continental US (as long as weather cooperates).



As an example, my work often takes me to Chicago, New York etc. Let's take Chicago as an example. My travel times look like this with the airlines:



1hr to get to airport.

1hr to check in before flight departs.

4hr flight

1hr to pick up luggage

1hr to get into town/destination.

TOTAL:  8hours



With a cabin class twin capable of 200kts, this is what it would take:



30min to get to airport

15min to preflight

8hrs flying

45min refueling/snack/bathroom stop

30min to get into town (as you're probably closer or on roads less traveled).

TOTAL: 10hrs



Not that big a difference in time. And in reality, because I have a paranoia about being late and hate stress, I will almost always be at the airport 2hrs before the flight leaves, so this brings the airline option to a realistic 9hrs of travel.  In price, well, that's another matter - makes no sense

_________________
Adam

cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: 680FP

And let's not forget you'll never miss a flight when you take your own plane. 



Keith S Gordon 

via Samsung Infuseâ™¦AT&T



stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks, Moe. 



55gals?? Wow. Sounds like a lot. The Aerostar 702P at running at 250kts burns about that. I guess the engines here are bigger and it's a bigger airframe, but still...



Anyway, good info. Yes, I would like to get something a bit faster and pressurized down the road. Every time I get groped and hassled by TSA agents on my travels, I think "I could be sitting in my own plane and not have to deal with all this c**p" listening to a podcast as I cruise along. Door to door travel times with a fast, pressurized all weather twin would be negligibly slower over most of the continental US (as long as weather cooperates).



As an example, my work often takes me to Chicago, New York etc. Let's take Chicago as an example. My travel times look like this with the airlines:



1hr to get to airport.

1hr to check in before flight departs.

4hr flight

1hr to pick up luggage

1hr to get into town/destination.

TOTAL:  8hours



With a cabin class twin capable of 200kts, this is what it would take:



30min to get to airport

15min to preflight

8hrs flying

45min refueling/snack/bathroom stop

30min to get into town (as you're probably closer or on roads less traveled).

TOTAL: 10hrs



Not that big a difference in time. And in reality, because I have a paranoia about being late and hate stress, I will almost always be at the airport 2hrs before the flight leaves, so this brings the airline option to a realistic 9hrs of travel.  In price, well, that's another matter - makes no sense 



--------

Adam





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375011#375011

tylorhall(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: 680FP

The view is better, It is a lot more fun doing the flying and the seat is more comfortable.

Tylor



On Jun 8, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Keith S. Gordon wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 And let's not forget you'll never miss a flight when you take your own plane. 

 

 Keith S Gordon 

 via Samsung Infuseâ™¦AT&T

 

 stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com> wrote:

 

> 

> 

> Thanks, Moe. 

> 

> 55gals?? Wow. Sounds like a lot. The Aerostar 702P at running at 250kts burns about that. I guess the engines here are bigger and it's a bigger airframe, but still...

> 

> Anyway, good info. Yes, I would like to get something a bit faster and pressurized down the road. Every time I get groped and hassled by TSA agents on my travels, I think "I could be sitting in my own plane and not have to deal with all this c**p" listening to a podcast as I cruise along. Door to door travel times with a fast, pressurized all weather twin would be negligibly slower over most of the continental US (as long as weather cooperates).

> 

> As an example, my work often takes me to Chicago, New York etc. Let's take Chicago as an example. My travel times look like this with the airlines:

> 

> 1hr to get to airport.

> 1hr to check in before flight departs.

> 4hr flight

> 1hr to pick up luggage

> 1hr to get into town/destination.

> TOTAL:  8hours

> 

> With a cabin class twin capable of 200kts, this is what it would take:

> 

> 30min to get to airport

> 15min to preflight

> 8hrs flying

> 45min refueling/snack/bathroom stop

> 30min to get into town (as you're probably closer or on roads less traveled).

> TOTAL: 10hrs

> 

> Not that big a difference in time. And in reality, because I have a paranoia about being late and hate stress, I will almost always be at the airport 2hrs before the flight leaves, so this brings the airline option to a realistic 9hrs of travel.  In price, well, that's another matter - makes no sense 

> 

> --------

> Adam

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375011#375011

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: 680FP

Hi Nico,

 

It will show up there in a couple of days.

 

Cheers!

 

Moe

 



From: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: 680FP

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 22:11:06 -0700

Hi Moe, 

This is very valuable and interesting information. Would you be so kind and also post this on our facebook page?

go to:

www.facebook.com/commanderflight like the page and post it. 

That will be useful to all Commander fans.

 

Thanks,

 

Nico

 

 

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 11:37 PM

To: Com

Subject: RE: Re: 680FP

 

Adam,

 

Good to hear from you.

 

The plane likes 16,000 to 18,000.  I have never flown above 17999 feet as I never have high altitude charts on board.  At 17,500 you should be able to keep about a 10,000 FT cabin.

 

There is a placard which advises that you must depressurize at 21,000 (maybe 21,500 can't remember since I never go up there)  I really like 17,000 eastbound and 16,000  westbound or 17.5 and 16.5 if VFR.  This is a good altitude as the Cessna 150's and so fourth don't back into me and I don't back into the Lears.  Most of the aircraft at this altitude will cruse at about the same Speed that I do.

 

If you are thinking of getting one please consider, that since you seem to get out and travel quite a bit, a Stormsope (or weather radar) is almost a must.  Also, since you seem to go to the east quite a bit, where the clouds start at about 500 feet AGL and go up to heaven, hot props, windshield alcohol, boots, heated fuel vents, and heated stall warning horn are almost a must.  If properly equipped you are then certified known icing.  Ironically, my worst icing horror story was when I was VFR and encountered freezing rain.  All of these toys are pretty expensive to keep up.  In the real world the storm scopes have probably saved my life only twice in the last 18 to 20 years, and the de-ice equipment has save me only a couple of times in the last 12 years, however, since I hold myself in high personal regard, and try to avoid personal injury and death at all cost the few extra thousand dollars has been well worth it.  

 

Fuel burn on a three hour trip will be almost 55 gallons per hour.  Given the cost of fuel today that is most likely the biggest down side to a 680F(p).  Keep in mind also that the IGSO540B1A (or C) engines are about the shortest TBO of anything that Lycoming makes (only 1,200 hours) and they are pretty expensive to overhaul.  These geared engines will serve you  well if you fly them correctly.  The upside is that 380 HP per wing is a good thing.  Several years ago I had an engine out at Night, 500 AGL on take off and it was a non event, with less power the outcome may have been very different.

 

If you are considering buying one feel free to call me CELL # 310-350-4594.  There is at least one on the market which has a pretty bad history of engine problems.  

 

Speed at the above altitudes and fuel burn is about 190 Knots.

 

Regards,

 

Moe

N680RR 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: 680FP

 From: adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)

 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 09:48:47 -0700

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)

 

 --> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)>

 

 Moe - can you give me some real life figures for the 680FP as a travel machine?

 

 Cruising speed up high?

 

 Fuel burn up high?

 

 What is a realistic cruising altitude with the pressurization? 20K or can you go higher?

 

 --------

 Adam

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374862#374862

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

&=========
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


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		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List  	
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8

 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: 680FP

Good point Keith, and also as of late my Commander is more dependable.  On my last flight from FMN to LAX the plane (Great Lakes) was eight hours late leaving FMN, by the time we got to Prescott, AZ the kid that was to do the de-ice had gone home so we got to LAX a little over 12 hours late.  I could have driven quicker (800) miles.  On the flight before that from LAX to FMN the old 1900 had fuel transfer pump problems so we were told in Prescott that there would be a 24 hour delay, since that was when the next plane going to FMN would be there (once a day service).  Fortunately, I had struck up a conversation with the girl across the isle and we rented a car and drove all the way to Farmington.  Unfortunately, she had a live in boy friend who she seemed to be terribly devoted to.  Again, driving would have been a better deal. Adam, what seemed to work for me when I was operating out of Hawthorne, CA was to cover everything west of the Mississippi in the 680F(p), and go commercially east of the Mississippi, EXCEPT when I had multiple destinations in the south east and then the Commander was the best choice. Regards, Moe

 > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 11:23:17 -0400

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: 680FP

 From: cloudcraft(at)aol.com

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 And let's not forget you'll never miss a flight when you take your own plane. 

 Keith S Gordon 

 via Samsung Infuseâ™¦AT&T

 stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com> wrote:

 >

 >

 >Thanks, Moe. 

 >

 >55gals?? Wow. Sounds like a lot. The Aerostar 702P at running at 250kts burns about that. I guess the engines here are bigger and it's a bigger airframe, but still...

 >

 >Anyway, good info. Yes, I would like to get something a bit faster and pressurized down the road. Every time I get groped and hassled by TSA agents on my travels, I think "I could be sitting in my own plane and not have to deal with all this c**p" listening to a podcast as I cruise along. Door to door travel times with a fast, pressurized all weather twin would be negligibly slower over most of the continental US (as long as weather cooperates).

 >

 >As an example, my work often takes me to Chicago, New York etc. Let's take Chicago as an example. My travel times look like this with the airlines:

 >

 >1hr to get to airport.

 >1hr to check in before flight departs.

 >4hr flight

 >1hr to pick up luggage

 >1hr to get into town/destination.

 >TOTAL:  8hours

 >

 >With a cabin class twin capable of 200kts, this is what it would take:

 >

 >30min to get to airport

 >15min to preflight

 >8hrs flying

 >45min refueling/snack/bathroom stop

 >30min to get into town (as you're probably closer or on roads less traveled).

 >TOTAL: 10hrs

 >

 >Not that big a difference in time. And in reality, because I have a paranoia about being late and hate stress, I will almost always be at the airport 2hrs before the flight leaves, so this brings the airline option to a realistic 9hrs of travel.  In price, well, that's another matter - makes no sense 

 >

 >--------

 >Adam

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >Read this topic online here:

 >

 >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375011#375011

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

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