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laflyins

Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Gramercy, LA

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:47 am Post subject: Starting Problem

I was in our Lightning the other day and when I hit the starter switch I could hear the solenoid click in but the prop did not make any attempt to move.  I had just come down from a flight.  So we took the cowl off and during the process of taking voltage readings, etc. the prop did spin on one of the starting attempts... although a bit weakly.  We had a recent occurrence where the plane was down a couple of months for some repairs and the battery went dead (Odyssey PC625) so we pulled the battery and took it down to get it checked.  The battery vendor said it was good but weak and recommended a process to "desulfinate" and charge it which we did.  Seemed to work fine.  Put battery back and prop spun with authority.

Went back out the next day and pulled plane out to fly... same thing... prop would not budge but solenoid clicks in hard.  Checked voltages and starter has full battery voltage (12.4 Volts) with starter switch engaged but nothing was happening.  I pulled the starter and turned gear a bit to see if there might be a dead spot in the starter.  Put it back in without the drive and the starter motor spun fine.... so I assume that it is a bad starter motor with some kind of intermittent fault.

Any other ideas?  One thing I did find is that the previous owner had not done the Service Bulletin on connecting the ground cable directly to the starter.  Could that be a factor?  Seems like if it is a poor ground caused by where the ground cable is connected or a weak battery then it might spin slow or at least make the prop jerk but when this anomaly happens it doesn't try to spin at all - the prop just does not make any attempt to move.

If it really is a bad starter motor, does anyone have a cross reference part number for it?



Regards,



Jim

(The engine is a Jabiru 3300 with hydraulic lifters bought in roughly 2006 but I don't have the serial number available right here.  The starter motor is silver and not the black one with gold ends like I read in some of the posts.)

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:37 am Post subject: Starting Problem

Forgive me for being blunt, but you've been told the battery is weak, and there's a service bulletin to correct a ground path problem for the starter. What do you need, a flag waved in front of you? Do the cheapest thing first and comply with the SB. That'll cost less than $10. A new battery costs less than $40 (I paid $38 for a Chicom 20 amp hour with the same form factor as the PC625 for my trike). If you keep screwing around you'll most likely damage the starter and then you will have to replace it.

 Obviously, I need more coffee.

Rick Girard



On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 5:47 AM, laflyins <rivierja(at)cox.net (rivierja(at)cox.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "laflyins" <rivierja(at)cox.net (rivierja(at)cox.net)>

  

 I was in our Lightning the other day and when I hit the starter switch I could hear the solenoid click in but the prop did not make any attempt to move.  I had just come down from a flight.  So we took the cowl off and during the process of taking voltage readings, etc. the prop did spin on one of the starting attempts... although a bit weakly.  We had a recent occurrence where the plane was down a couple of months for some repairs and the battery went dead (Odyssey PC625) so we pulled the battery and took it down to get it checked.  The battery vendor said it was good but weak and recommended a process to "desulfinate" and charge it which we did.  Seemed to work fine.  Put battery back and prop spun with authority.

  Went back out the next day and pulled plane out to fly... same thing... prop would not budge but solenoid clicks in hard.  Checked voltages and starter has full battery voltage (12.4 Volts) with starter switch engaged but nothing was happening.  I pulled the starter and turned gear a bit to see if there might be a dead spot in the starter.  Put it back in without the drive and the starter motor spun fine.... so I assume that it is a bad starter motor with some kind of intermittent fault.

  Any other ideas?  One thing I did find is that the previous owner had not done the Service Bulletin on connecting the ground cable directly to the starter.  Could that be a factor?  Seems like if it is a poor ground caused by where the ground cable is connected or a weak battery then it might spin slow or at least make the prop jerk but this anomaly happens it doesn't try to spin at all - the prop just does not make any attempt to move.

  If it really is a bad starter motor, does anyone have a cross reference part number for it?

 

 Regards,

 

 Jim

 (The engine is a Jabiru 3300 with hydraulic lifters bought in roughly 2006 but I don't have the serial number available right here.  The starter motor is silver and not the black one with gold ends like I read in some of the posts.)

  

 

 

 

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dave.go

Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 26

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: Starting Problem

I would certainly replace a weak battery and add the required ground, but 

you may be right in that the prop should at least attempt to turn. You can 

try measuring the voltages. Put a voltmeter on from the positive of the 

battery to the negative and see what drop you get when you attempt to start. 

Look for voltage drops along the starting circuit all the way along solenoid 

in, out, starter pos, starter case, to the engine case and then the frame 

ground itself. the problem should become evident.



---

laflyins

Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Gramercy, LA

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Problem

I will definitely move the ground to the starter.  Makes a lot of sense and was planning to do that as soon as I saw the SB.



I had checked some voltages and there was no significant drop anywhere through the system... there was 0 drop across the solenoid when it was engaged and there was 12.4 volts between the positive wire at the starter and the starter housing.... which was essentially the same as the battery voltage.



As for the weak battery, what I neglected to say in the first message was that when the battery vendor tested it he said it was weak but had significant life left in it and it should charge up just fine... which we think it did from what we saw when charging it.  We gave his opinion some credibility because when the guy whose job it is to sell you a new battery tells you that you don't need one then I guess we tended to believe him.  Maybe he is wrong. We'll see.



Jim

dave.go

Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 26

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: Starting Problem

Hi, if you are measuring 12.4 across the starter and there's no action, it 

looks like you may have had the right idea in the first place and there may 

be an issue with the starter itself. Starters are pretty generic things and 

your local starter shop may be able to help if that's what it turns out to 

be. Try the extra ground first though, you'll have to buy that anyway.



---

Peter H

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 197

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: Starting Problem

Jim,

I introduced the idea of a starter earth strap 3 years ago when I found that

the two long clamping bolts for the starter casing were getting very hot.

Earth must carry full starting current and should be best low resistance. As

supplied earth was by means only of the two clamping bolts which were set in

Loctite, a poor conductor. There was no current path through the casing

because the sections are insulated with rubber seals.

I think you may find that is the cause of your intermittent problem.

Peter



--

naftalih(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:49 pm Post subject: Starting Problem

There must be a significant voltage drop when engaging the starter C since it draws appr. 200 amps. If no drop at all C then the starter brushes are not conducting at all C or nothing is connected to the starter.

 Naftali.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Starting Problem

 From: rivierja(at)cox.net

 Date: Sun C 3 Jan 2010 12:03:46 -0800

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "laflyins" <rivierja(at)cox.net>

 I will definitely move the ground to the starter. Makes a lot of sense and was planning to do that as soon as I saw the SB.

 I had checked some voltages and there was no significant drop anywhere through the system... there was 0 drop across the solenoid when it was engaged and there was 12.4 volts between the positive wire at the starter and the starter housing.... which was essentially the same as the battery voltage.

 As for the weak battery C what I neglected to say in the first message was that when the battery vendor tested it he said it was weak but had significant life left in it and it should charge up just fine... which we think it did from what we saw when charging it. We gave his opinion some credibility because when the guy whose job it is to sell you a new battery tells you that you don't need one then I guess we tended to believe him. Maybe he is wrong. We'll see.

 Jim

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279913#279913

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:30 am Post subject: Starting Problem

When I first read your post, I was thinking that at 12.4, that was  

NOT a fully charged battery...12.7 is, from what I've read. I used to  

think 12 volts was 12 volts...now I *think* I know better.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 831.6 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~169 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

do not archive



On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:03 PM, laflyins wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I will definitely move the ground to the starter.  Makes a lot of  

 sense and was planning to do that as soon as I saw the SB.



 I had checked some voltages and there was no significant drop  

 anywhere through the system... there was 0 drop across the solenoid  

 when it was engaged and there was 12.4 volts between the positive  

 wire at the starter and the starter housing.... which was  

 essentially the same as the battery voltage.



 As for the weak battery, what I neglected to say in the first  

 message was that when the battery vendor tested it he said it was  

 weak but had significant life left in it and it should charge up  

 just fine... which we think it did from what we saw when charging  

 it.  We gave his opinion some credibility because when the guy  

 whose job it is to sell you a new battery tells you that you don't  

 need one then I guess we tended to believe him.  Maybe he is wrong.  

 We'll see.



 Jim





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 79913#279913

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:17 am Post subject: Starting Problem

Jim, While your battery vendor is trying to give you good advice for a lawn tractor or similar ground based device, is he aware of the abused life an aircraft battery generally leads? Sitting for long periods of time then asked to give it's rated cold cranking amps after which it gets a brief charge and then it's back to sitting for long periods, an aircraft battery should be on a regular replacement interval, IMHO. In my case I run them for 3 years maximum or the first sign of hesitancy to start the engine whichever comes first and then they get retired to some other activity. Amortized out over that 3 year period, my $38 AGM battery adds about $1 a month to my flying costs. Cheap insurance to know that if I need it for an in flight restart it'll be there for me. Just a thought.

Rick Girard

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 11:43 PM, Naftali Horowitz <naftalih(at)hotmail.com (naftalih(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]     There must be a significant voltage drop when engaging the starter, since it draws appr. 200 amps. If no drop at all, then the starter brushes are not conducting at all, or nothing is connected to the starter.

 Naftali.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Starting Problem

 From: rivierja(at)cox.net (rivierja(at)cox.net)

 Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:03:46 -0800

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)

 > 

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "laflyins" <rivierja(at)cox.net (rivierja(at)cox.net)>

 I will definitely move the ground to the starter. Makes a lot of sense and was planning to do that as soon as I saw the SB.

 > 

 	  Quote: 	
		   I had checked some voltages and there was no significant drop anywhere through the system... there was 0 drop across the solenoid when it was engaged and there was 12.4 volts between the positive wire at the starter and the starter housing.... which was essentially the same as the battery voltage.

 > 

 	  Quote: 	
		   As for the weak battery, what I neglected to say in the first message was that when the battery vendor tested it he said it was weak but had significant life left in it and it should charge up just fine... which we think it did from what we saw when charging it. We gave his opinion some credibility because when the guy whose job it is to sell you a new battery tells you that you don't need one then I guess we tended to believe him. Maybe he is wrong. We'll see.

 > 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Jim

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279913#279913

 > 

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: Starting Problem

Good Morning Rick,

  

 For the first fifty or so years of my flying career, I thought the same as  you. Swap out the battery every couple of years or when it doesn't crank the  engine as robustly as it had in the past.

  

 However, about ten years ago the FAA started to encourage load testing of  aircraft batteries. Along about the same time. they started to insist that  manufacturers supply Instructions For Continued Airworthiness documents for most  everything we put in our airplanes. 'Lectric Bob (That is the way Bob Nuckolls  was signing his messages when I first discovered his written wisdom) was telling  us that we should be load testing our batteries.  He also mentioned that it  only takes about ten percent of a battery's normal strength to make a normal  engine start so if we wait to replace a battery until cranking becomes an issue,  we have waited far too long. It is especially bad if our airplane needs the  battery to keep us in the air following a failure of the electrical generating  device.

  

 Consequently, I broke down and spent way more than I wanted to and  purchased a high tech load testing device. It has been an eye opener. Some of my  high priced certified batteries have failed the test after not much more than a  year while others have soldiered on for many years.

  

 My super duper load tester from Concorde has proven to be a wise purchase  for me, but much cheaper load testing can be done if you don't have to check as  many batteries as I do.

  

 'Lectric Bob also has recommended that, in addition to load testing,  regular replacement on a schedule such as you advise is cheap insurance for  those who have an electrically dependent engine. If you use a two battery  system, change one every year, but do the load testing as well!

  

 As to adding a direct starter ground. I had weak cranking on my Stearman  for the first fifteen years I owned it. A couple of years ago I finally heeded  'Lectric Bob's advice and ran a fat wire from the battery ground direct to the  starter, It has made the a prop spin so fast I think I could taxi on the thrust.  I had always checked the aircraft's grounding straps and generally found them to  be in good shape, but running that fat wire is something I should have done  fifteen years ago.

  

 Happy Skies

  

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Downers Grove, IL 

 LL22

 Stearman N3977A

  

  In a message dated 1/4/2010 7:17:51 A.M. Central Standard Time,  aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Jim,    While your battery vendor is trying to give you good advice for a lawn tractor    or similar ground based device, is he aware of the abused life an aircraft    battery generally leads? Sitting for long periods of time then asked to give    it's rated cold cranking amps after which it gets a brief charge and then it's    back to sitting for long periods, an aircraft battery should be on a regular    replacement interval, IMHO. In my case I run them for 3 years maximum or the    first sign of hesitancy to start the engine whichever comes first and then    they get retired to some other activity. Amortized out over that 3 year    period, my $38 AGM battery adds about $1 a month to my flying costs. Cheap    insurance to know that if I need it for an in flight restart it'll be there    for me.    Just a thought.

   



   Rick Girard



   On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 11:43 PM, Naftali Horowitz <naftalih(at)hotmail.com (naftalih(at)hotmail.com)>    wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		       There must be a significant voltage drop when engaging the starter,      since it draws appr. 200 amps. If no drop at all, then the starter brushes      are not conducting at all, or nothing is connected to the      starter.

Naftali.

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re:      Starting Problem

 From: rivierja(at)cox.net (rivierja(at)cox.net)

      Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:03:46 -0800

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)

 

 -->      JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "laflyins" <rivierja(at)cox.net (rivierja(at)cox.net)>

 

 I will definitely      move the ground to the starter. Makes a lot of sense and was planning to do      that as soon as I saw the SB.

 

 I had checked some voltages      and there was no significant drop anywhere through the system... there was 0      drop across the solenoid when it was engaged and there was 12.4 volts      between the positive wire at the starter and the starter housing.... which      was essentially the same as the battery voltage.

 

 As for the      weak battery, what I neglected to say in the first message was that when the      battery vendor tested it he said it was weak but had significant life left      in it and it should charge up just fine... which we think it did from what      we saw when charging it. We gave his opinion some credibility because when      the guy whose job it is to sell you a new battery tells you that you don't      need one then I guess we tended to believe him. Maybe he is wrong. We'll      see.

 

 Jim

 

 

 

 

 Read      this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279913#279913

      

 

 

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punchy(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:01 am Post subject: Starting Problem

Rick,  where and what model number do you buy for $38.  



Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Jim, While your battery vendor is trying to give you good advice for a lawn

tractor or similar ground based device, is he aware of the abused life an

aircraft battery generally leads? Sitting for long periods of time then

asked to give it's rated cold cranking amps after which it gets a brief

charge and then it's back to sitting for long periods, an aircraft battery

should be on a regular replacement interval, IMHO. In my case I run them for

3 years maximum or the first sign of hesitancy to start the engine whichever

comes first and then they get retired to some other activity. Amortized out

over that 3 year period, my $38 AGM battery adds about $1 a month to my

flying costs. Cheap insurance to know that if I need it for an in flight

restart it'll be there for me.

Just a thought.



Rick Girard



On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 11:43 PM, Naftali Horowitz <naftalih(at)hotmail.com>wrote:



>  There must be a significant voltage drop when engaging the starter, since

> it draws appr. 200 amps. If no drop at all, then the starter brushes are not

> conducting at all, or nothing is connected to the starter.

> Naftali.

>

> > Subject: Re: Starting Problem

> > From: rivierja(at)cox.net

> > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:03:46 -0800

> > To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

> >

> > 

> >

> > I will definitely move the ground to the starter. Makes a lot of sense

> and was planning to do that as soon as I saw the SB.

> >

> > I had checked some voltages and there was no significant drop anywhere

> through the system... there was 0 drop across the solenoid when it was

> engaged and there was 12.4 volts between the positive wire at the starter

> and the starter housing.... which was essentially the same as the battery

> voltage.

> >

> > As for the weak battery, what I neglected to say in the first message was

> that when the battery vendor tested it he said it was weak but had

> significant life left in it and it should charge up just fine... which we

> think it did from what we saw when charging it. We gave his opinion some

> credibility because when the guy whose job it is to sell you a new battery

> tells you that you don't need one then I guess we tended to believe him.

> Maybe he is wrong. We'll see.

> >

> > Jim

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Read this topic online here:

> >

> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 79913#279913

> >

> >

> >

> &gt==

> >

> >

> >

>

> ------------------------------

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>

> *

>

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imap8ntr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: Starting Problem

Lynn

I agree. When my AGM battery is fully charged it reads 12.7-12.9v.  As a 

rule of thumb 12.4 is 40% charged,  12.2 is 20% charged.  A new battery 

seems to hit almost 13.v when fully charged.  My Odyssey charger also 

measured the % charge and substantiates this.

Ivan

---

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:35 am Post subject: Starting Problem

It's a PowerSonic PSH 12180NB-FR. I got it at Allpak Battery in Wichita, KS

_________________
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lbmathias(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: Starting Problem

I use the same Odyssey battery and mine only lasts  about 2 years.

  

 Linda Mathias

 [quote]   ---

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: Starting Problem

I wouldn't get hung up about battery volts. 12 point this or that. To

find out how good a battery is you need to pull some load off it (or use

a tester).



A good battery that sits in the low twelve's can still carry out many

cranks. A crap battery in the high twelve's could decay quickly once

it's doing a bit of work.

As mentioned elsewhere a couple of hundred amps is what we are talking

about, that will drag a poor battery down quickly (voltage) no matter

what the voltage started at. And it's the pressure (volts) that pushes

the current through to do the work. 

Well at least that's how it figures in my head and is also my

experience.



I got a golf cart battery for a few quid and it lasted fine for a year.

When it died on my 2200 (poor starting in the winter in UK)  I used it

Ok for a couple of years on my 3300 which cranks far better that the

2200.

Eventually I had to put my hand in my pocket. I put the newest battery

on the 2200 and then moved the old one to the 3300 as it's more tolerant

and a far better starter.



Mind you I haven't ground out the choke lever (starting carburettor) on

the 2200 yet which I'm hoping will improve the starting in cold weather.

(Rogers pictures on Yahoo).



Regarding fat wires, the resistance of a chunky wire is low, but as we

are banging hundred of amps through it the voltage dropped across that

resistance can be an issue. The longer the wire the more the resistance

so the fatter it should be. Why batteries in the back maybe good for W+B

but poor for starting (unless you have a Kolb). 



Get someone to crank your plane with the mags grounded and see what the

difference between the voltage on the battery +'ve and the voltage on

that bit of cable that sticks out of the starter where the poor rubber

cracks. You can see what the cable/solenoid+contacts is losing. Also

measure the voltage between the starter bolt head and the negative

terminal on the battery (while cranking) if the starter ground is good

there won't be any, if you are seeing something the reading is what you

are loosing in cranking volts for your starter. Or measure the voltage

across the hole in the starter cable and the bolt head. That's what is

getting to do the work on your electric motor (almost).



I've never measured what a new battery drops to when it's cranking but

it would be a good exercise as it should give you a good starting point.

Later as the battery starts to get old and fails to do the business note

it again. Somewhere in between is where you should bin the battery.



Regarding preheat, a battery will produce less voltage when it gets

colder. You may have seen your modern car battery has an insulated

jacket around it. If the battery is very cold it won't perform as well.

Worth insulating your battery if you live in extreme conditions I would

have thought Though after a few days will still reach ambient.



Regards Clive

--

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Starting Problem

Hello all....



I have a A-2200 ser-1228  on my Kolb Mark III Xtra and I am just having this problem on starting. Where can I find the SB on the ground strap? The one I have on the engine is a small copper strap from the bottom of the block to the motor mount. And Why all of a sudden the problem??  Any ideas?



chris ambrose

Kolb Mark 3 Xtra / Jabiru A-2200 ser# 1228....106 hrs on it

N327CS

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Problem

I have a Toyota pickup that will start intermittently when the big copper washer in the solenoid does not contact the incoming and outgoing posts. Even though it sounds like the solenoid engages with a robust click. What happens is the contacts get burned down to a height that the washer can't make contact across them when pulled in by the solenoid. With the solenoid engaged you should have twelve volts coming in and the same going out, if not then there is no connection happening in the solenoid.

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

pete(at)usjabiru.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: Starting Problem

A small copper strap probably is not sufficient.  You need a ground cable

from starter to airframe that is as large as the starter cable itself.  #4

welding cable is the norm.  The starter service bulletin and all other

bulletins can be found on Jabiru's web site www.jabiru.net.au .  If your

engine has been starting ok in the past but suddenly is not then you problem

may be in another area like weak battery, corrosion in the dist caps or

rotor, old spark plugs with incorrect gap, out of spec coil to magnet gap,

etc.  A little detective work goes a long way here.



Pete



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ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Starting Problem

Thank you all....

I will be working on it tomorrow..or should I say later this morning.I will let you know what happens tonight..



chris ambrose

M3X/Jab   A2200  106 hrs  ser# 1228

N327CS

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Starting Problem

Help ! 



I think I found the problem...it's the starter...it looks like the front bearing was just touching the edge of the hole it goes into and now doesn't fit in there at all...there's a good 1/4 in of play at the end of the armature and is  going against the field...How can I get a hold of Jabiru??  The west coast number was disconnected...



thanks,



chris ambrose

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