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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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 Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Mike, Harbor Freight sells car dollies that have castering wheels for about $40 a pair. If you made a tail boom dolly from one of their mover's dolly, usually on sale for $10, which also has casters, you'd be all set to go through that gate sideways for less than $100. Just a thought.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Hey Big Bob,
I realize that if I were to go with the "one wing folded" approach that it would be VERY side-heavy. What I would have done is incorporate a cushioned cradle to support and brace that one extended wing. [ In other words, I would have allowed for that : ) ]
After measuring the new gate opening width, and finding out it is 27 feet wide, I'm real tempted to try to go with the sideways tow idea. Here's why;
Remember, my main preference is have the plane stay 100% flyable at all times. Folding even one wing is more than I would prefer not to do. I'd do it, but I'd rather not, if something else will allow the plane to stay fully "flight ready". I really would like it to simply roll onto a trailer, secure it with bungies and velcro straps, and roll home.
Since the gate opening is 27 feet, and the overall length nose to tail is around 24 feet, I'm tempted to make an executive decision, and just go with that sideways tow idea. This would allow me to make a trailer that the plane would roll onto from the side. (onto runners, most likely) It could allow me to keep both wings fully extended (and everything, for that matter). The plane would tow fairly easily between the 27 foot gap.
Now, I need to come up with a decent, very low, trailer, with runners for a side loading.
Thanks for everybody's input,
Mike Welch
From: slyck(at)frontiernet.net (slyck(at)frontiernet.net)
Subject: Re: Trailer challenge
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:25:36 -0500
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Mike, take into consideration the plane is a little tippy with one wing on. I like the diagonal approach ---or maybe knife edge? 
BB
On 4, Jan 2010, at 3:19 PM, Mike Welch wrote:
| Quote: | Kolb guys,
Okay, I just got back from taking some measurements. Here's what I got;
The gate opening is 27 feet. Posts are 9 foot tall. I thought the gap was closer to 20-22'...hmmm, maybe I measured the old gate opening.
My wingspan is around 31 feet (14' for each wing, plus 36" for the center section). However, if only ONE wing is folded, you'd have to add about 3 feet for the landing gear, i.e....14' for one wing, plus 3' center section, plus 3 feet for exposed landing gear = 20' wide overall (if one wing were folded) This would be slam dunk easy trailer to build, if I went with a "one-wing folded design".
I'm going to have to pull out some graph paper, scale the MkIII's outer dimensions, scale a 27 foot opening....and see if a diagonal trailer mount will work. More on this one later..
Thanks for everyone's input.
Mike Welch
From: mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Trailer challenge
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:41:52 -0800
Robert,
I thought of that, too. I think this has to be one of the front runners.
You know what? Since I already have that handy dandy boom tube support
(from Uncle Craig's design), and it has these padded wing pockets, this may not be a bad idea.
Thanks Robert, Mike
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:05:00 -0600
Subject: Re: Trailer challenge
From: rlaird(at)cavediver.com (rlaird(at)cavediver.com)
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Why not just fold one wing? It would then easily slip through the gate, at no cost to you, and time spent of about 5 minutes setting up the wing and gap seal.
Seems to me that's a WHOLE lot simpler and cheaper than any other solution.
-- Robert
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whiskeyvictor36(at)aol.co
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:41 pm Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Hello All Kolbers,
If nothing else, this has been a very entertaining discussion. This is the kind of stuff I like to read. Some funny and some serious. With all the input, it sounds like Mike is closing in on an answer to his dilemma.
Bill Varnes
Kolb FireStar (sitting in its hangar/cold & windy)
Audubon, NJ
In a message dated 1/4/2010 1:52:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | I am looking for trailer ideas.
A) I plan on towing this trailer with my ATV.
B) The trailer does not need to EVER be towed on the roads (except for my road).
C) The MkIII must clear the 9' X 20' gate opening
D) I can use the 12 volt electrical supply from the ATV (for a winch, etc)
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Yup C Bill C I think you're right.
Luckily C when the airport people replaced all the fencing last year at the airport C they widened the gate a few feet. With a clearance of 27 feet C this makes it very possible to just tow the plane sideways. This also lets me keep the plane 100% assembled C ready to fly.
Rick G. also just suggested a real good idea C too. Since I already have that heavy duty tailboom dolly I built a couple of years ago C and I don't need to raise the plane into the air C all I need is a dolly to carry just the main wheels.
He thinks I could get by with a couple (maybe more) of those Harbor Freight wheels C and some steel tubing C etc. I think he's right.
Thanks for everyone's input C I appreciate it a lot.
Mike Welch
From: whiskeyvictor36(at)aol.com
Date: Mon C 4 Jan 2010 23:37:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Trailer challenge
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Hello All Kolbers C
If nothing else C this has been a very entertaining discussion. This is the kind of stuff I like to read. Some funny and some serious. With all the input C it sounds like Mike is closing in on an answer to his dilemma.
Bill Varnes
Kolb FireStar (sitting in its hangar/cold & windy)
Audubon C NJ
In a message dated 1/4/2010 1:52:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time C mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | I am looking for trailer ideas.
A) I plan on towing this trailer with my ATV.
B) The trailer does not need to EVER be towed on the roads (except for my road).
C) The MkIII must clear the 9' X 20' gate opening
D) I can use the 12 volt electrical supply from the ATV (for a winch C etc)
|
Hotmail: Trusted email with Micros7141664/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. [quote][b]
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aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:44 pm Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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How about building your trailer with one side higher than the other, if you
need to clear 9 ft on one side only the other wing only needs to be 18 inchs
off the ground , with a wide undercarrage on the trailer,trolly it should
still remain stable for towing.
Downunder
MK111c
Regards
Tony
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zeprep251(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Mike,
Take a look at the mechanism employed on pontoon boat trailers.
G.Aman
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zeprep251(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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John,
That was back in the day when BS was naturally generated.The new Federally generated kind is more difficult to navigate.
G.Aman
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zeprep251(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:01 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Mike,
Can you put the plane on a trailer at 45 degrees to the center line?
G.Aman
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:02 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Mike C
Can you put the plane on a trailer at 45 degrees to the center line?
G.Aman
Gary C
After I measured the new gate opening C and finding it is actually 27' wide C I think I can just make a simple dolly device to carry just the main wheels. I already have the tailboom dolly. I would need to connect a simple brace to tie the main wheel dolly and the tailboom dolly C and it would act as the towbar C too.
My tailboom dolly has castors. The main wheel dolly will not C because I need the plane to track directly
behind my ATV.
When I experimented with a model airplane C it appears that the best clearance is 90 degrees (sideways). As I rotated the model plane C the hor. stabilizer forced the airplane to have a wider clearance requirement.
From all the information I have thus far C it looks like I'm A-OK with a simple sideways mount trailer or main wheel dolly. (24' long plane going through a 27' gate opening.)
Still C I do like the idea of raising the tail really high (over 10')....if I ever needed to. Then I could go through the gate without having to just squeeze through.
Mike Welch
Hotmail: Trusted email w/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. [quote][b]
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by0ung(at)brigham.net
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:36 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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I'm going to have to pull out some graph paper, scale the MkIII's outer dimensions, scale a 27 foot opening....and see if a diagonal trailer mount will work. More on this one later..
Thanks for everyone's input.
Mike Welch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Years ago while visiting in Washington state, I saw a kolb on a hand pull trailer. The plane sat on the trailer sideways, left wing to the front right wing to the rear, nose to the right,,, well you get the idea. I don’t know the dimensions of your mkIII classic/extra, but that may just be to easy. The kolb info packet shows the length of the original mkIII as 22’6”
Boyd Young
[quote][b]
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:13 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Hi Boyd C
Sounds like that trailer would be exactly what I need.
In a previous email C I stated it looks like the narrowest method to tow a completely assembled Kolb MkIII is to go totally at 90 degrees sideways. Any skewing appears to require more clearance.
Since my MkIII has a TNK Co.'s OEM Xtra nosecone C and all the fuselage tubing was built as precisely as I could measure to a genuine Xtra's dimensions C my MkIII will reflect almost identical dimensions of a factory built Xtra.
I just went out to my shop and measured the length C from nose to tail. I come up with VERY close to 23' 6". (this is with the rudder swung over as much as possible C shortening up the overall length a couple of inches.)
This all appears as good news to me. I've got to get a 23' 6" airplane through a 27' wide gate opening. Sounds fairly easy to me to plan on building a "main wheel dolly" that tracks directly behind my ATV.
Time to sketch out some ideas for dollies.
(Where is Uncle Craig when you need him? ha ha)
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
Years ago while visiting in Washington state C I saw a kolb on a hand pull trailer. The plane sat on the trailer sideways C left wing to the front right wing to the rear C nose to the right C C C well you get the idea. I don’t know the dimensions of your mkIII classic/extra C but that may just be to easy. The kolb info packet shows the length of the original mkIII as 22’6”
Boyd Young
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with ect/01/' target='_new'>Get it now. [quote][b]
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Herb Graff
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:02 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Mike,
I would be considering a Lift Strut extensions that would raise the wings to 10 feet, at 10 feet out from center.
Maybe even a fancy telescoping Lift Strut, that is electrically driven between transport and flying condition?
Herb Graff
Mark III, 246KT
In a message dated 1/4/2010 11:52:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | I only have ONE obstacle between my hangar and the taxiways...the airport entrance gate. It's a set of swinging gates, that are always open. The gap is around 20-22 feet wide and the gate posts are around 9 feet tall. Simply put, I need to get my assembled plane from my hangar to inside the airport. |
[quote][b]
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:37 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Hi Herb C
Doesn't hit me as a good idea to modify the plane like that C Herb. If a wing were to be raised that high C I'd have to unhook the aileron control C etc. Plus C the wing mount wouldn't allow for such a high angle. All these things are what I'm trying to avoid.
Fortunately C as it turns out C the gate opening is 27' and in the sideways position C my plane is 23' 6". So C sideways it is!!
Now C all I have to do is come up with a very nice design C well-built trailer to tow the plane sideways.
Mike Welch
From: HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Date: Tue C 5 Jan 2010 13:00:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Trailer challenge
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Mike C
I would be considering a Lift Strut extensions that would raise the wings to 10 feet C at 10 feet out from center.
Maybe even a fancy telescoping Lift Strut C that is electrically driven between transport and flying condition?
Herb Graff
Mark III C 246KT
In a message dated 1/4/2010 11:52:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time C mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | I only have ONE obstacle between my hangar and the taxiways...the airport entrance gate. It's a set of swinging gates C that are always open. The gap is around 20-22 feet wide and the gate posts are around 9 feet tall. Simply put C I need to get my assembled plane from my hangar to inside the airport. |
Hotmail: Free C trusted and rich target='_new'>Get it now. [quote][b]
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tclongo(at)att.net
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Go to Harbor Freight and purchase a motorcycle/ATV lift for less than $100 put one wheel on it while on the trailer then jack it up and drive in with one wing over fence. Then let it down as soon as you are in, will take just a few seconds to do so.
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of zeprep251(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:58 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Trailer challenge
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
Mike,
Can you put the plane on a trailer at 45 degrees to the center line?
G.Aman
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Jan 4, 2010 3:19 pm
Subject: RE: Trailer challenge
Kolb guys,
Okay, I just got back from taking some measurements. Here's what I got;
The gate opening is 27 feet. Posts are 9 foot tall. I thought the gap was closer to 20-22'...hmmm, maybe I measured the old gate opening.
My wingspan is around 31 feet (14' for each wing, plus 36" for the center section). However, if only ONE wing is folded, you'd have to add about 3 feet for the landing gear, i.e....14' for one wing, plus 3' center section, plus 3 feet for exposed landing gear =[b] 20' wide [/b]overall (if one wing were folded) This would be slam dunk easy trailer to build, if I went with a "one-wing folded design".
I'm going to have to pull out some graph paper, scale the MkIII's outer dimensions, scale a 27 foot opening....and see if a diagonal trailer mount will work. More on this one later..
Thanks for everyone's input.
Mike Welch
From: mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Trailer challenge
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:41:52 -0800
Robert,
I thought of that, too. I think this has to be one of the front runners.
You know what? Since I already have that handy dandy boom tube support
(from Uncle Craig's design), and it has these padded wing pockets, this may not be a bad idea.
Thanks Robert, Mike
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:05:00 -0600
Subject: Re: Trailer challenge
From: rlaird(at)cavediver.com (rlaird(at)cavediver.com)
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Why not just fold one wing? It would then easily slip through the gate, at no cost to you, and time spent of about 5 minutes setting up the wing and gap seal.
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
Seems to me that's a WHOLE lot simpler and cheaper than any other solution.
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
-- Robert
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
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2[quote]<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> - The Kolb-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>[b]
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russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Wouldn't the other wing hit the ground? Or have I missed something?
On Jan 5, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Tom Longo wrote:
[quote]Go to Harbor Freight and purchase a motorcycle/ATV lift for less than $100 put one wheel on it while on the trailer then jack it up and drive in with one wing over fence. Then let it down as soon as you are in, will take just a few seconds to do so.
--
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tclongo(at)att.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:15 pm Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Depends on how high the fence is, he said opening is 27 feet wide, so if it is on a trailer the wing is up fairly high already, should not take much lift on one side to clear and the other wing should have plenty of room before it hits the ground.
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of russ kinne
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:36 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Trailer challenge
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
Wouldn't the other wing hit the ground? Or have I missed something?
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
On Jan 5, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Tom Longo wrote:
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>
Go to Harbor Freight and purchase a motorcycle/ATV lift for less than $100 put one wheel on it while on the trailer then jack it up and drive in with one wing over fence. Then let it down as soon as you are in, will take just a few seconds to do so.
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Tom C
Thanks for the suggestion C but here are some key points to consider.
I don't have any trailer to carry the Kolb at this time C so whatever I come up with C I have to make.
That wouldn't a problem C I've made a couple "car carrier" trailers in the past C but I don't want something that large. (actually C I have a 5 ton flatbed trailer for my backhoe C which I used to move my plane here C but it's waaaay too heavy for my ATV!!)
Remember C I'm not trying to "tow" the plane very far C only 1/4 mile C to at the end of my road. What I'm looking for is more like a "dolly" than a true airplane trailer.
When I thought the gate clearance was 20-22 feet C I considered building a trailer pretty close to what you have in mind. Doesn't look like I need to go this route C though.
While I believe what you suggest will work C it would be MUCH more complex to build than necessary. Especially C since I've mentioned my plane is 23' 6" long...going through the 27' wide opening C and it can be towed sideways.
So far C it appears as though Boyd has the best towing solution for me.
Thanks for the suggestion C though.
Mike Welch
From: tclongo(at)att.net
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Trailer challenge
Date: Tue C 5 Jan 2010 21:11:18 -0500
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Depends on how high the fence is C he said opening is 27 feet wide C so if it is on a trailer the wing is up fairly high already C should not take much lift on one side to clear and the other wing should have plenty of room before it hits the ground.
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:05 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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FAA has recently stated that they want to eliminate through the gate operations at airports. Can you imagine the government mandating that a persons car must be parked on a expressway to be able to use it. Go figure.>>
Do you think that the natural `authority must be wrong` attitude is a bit overdone in this case.
Given the present security mad atmosphere would you be happy that anyone could just roll up and push their plane through a hole in the hedge and fly away. No control by the airport authority.
If someone did that and turned out to be an `evildoer` (lovely phrase, could only have been invented by an American) all hell would break loose and we should have more rgulations imposed than you could shake a stick at.
Just a thought
Pat
[quote][b]
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:07 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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At 06:04 AM 1/6/2010, pj.ladd wrote:
| Quote: | Do you think that the natural `authority must be wrong` attitude is a bit overdone in this case.
Given the present security mad atmosphere would you be happy that anyone could just roll up and push their plane through a hole in the hedge and fly away. No control by the airport authority.
If someone did that and turned out to be an `evildoer` (lovely phrase, could only have been invented by an American) all hell would break loose and we should have more rgulations imposed than you could shake a stick at. |
No, I don't think it's overdone.
First, the damage an "evildoer" could do with a small plane is very limited, far less than what one could do with. say, a truck filled with explosives.
Second, this only applies to airports receiving federal funding, so there are plenty of other airports that may _not_ have this policy for the evildoer to use for his nefarious purposes (another good word, picture Doctor Evil stroking his cat and laughing hysterically while plotting world domination in his Kolb).
Third, it doesn't even apply to aircraft on trailers coming through the gate... it only applies to people who own property directly adjacent to the airport (i.e. fly-in communities and businesses adjacent to the airport)... a small enough group that the airport authority presumably can verify that they're aren't "evildoers".
It's all about pointless expansion of government power, by bureaucrats who don't have a clue, to please people who don't have a clue.
-Dana
do not archive
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Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top. [quote][b]
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NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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Mike
I would ask if you can widen the gate. Be nice but what is the worst they can say?
I have hanger in Michigan that is about 6 inches wider than my plane. I pull the plane in very slowly watching the wing tips and I scrap them occasionally. You will be pulling the plane with a atv. You can do some real damage if you get too close. How about setting some kind of flag or something about a foot ahead of the nose and tail (on the ground or mounted on the trailer) that will warn you that you are too close.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: Trailer challenge |
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another good word, picture
Doctor Evil stroking his cat and laughing hysterically while plotting world
domination in his Kolb).>>
Hi Dana,
glorious picture. LOL
Don`t really want to start a big thing over this. I know that the American thinks automatically, that anything which government or `authority` does is suspect, and I have a certain sympathy with that stance but in view of 9/11 etc., if |I was in charge I would certainly want some control of aircraft and pushing an unregistered plane through a hole in the hedge without any say so from the control tower would worry me. If in the first instance I could only do it for airfields which were receiving government funding, that would be the first step..
What damage they can do is largely irrelevant. I remember having to get a Million pounds worth of insurance to fly my glider into an RAF airfield because they maintained some stores there.
Cheers
Pat
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