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Thoughts on Commander 680V
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John IV

Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 4

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Good Morning Everyone,



I'm currently considering the possibility of trading into a Commander 680V from my current P-Baron.  I'm wondering if anyone on the list here might have some experience with the 680 T, V, or W series of aircraft and be willing to share their thoughts and insight (positive or negative) on these planes.



I understand that the engines ( -34A ) are somewhat orphaned but that there may still be a couple shops supporting them.  It's also my understanding that most of the airframe parts are shared with the 680FL(p).  Please correct me on these items if I'm wrong.



Naturally I'm interested in any information you're willing to share, of particular interest however would be real world experiences on what one should expect for TAS and fuel burn, common maintenance issues, and areas to pay particular attention to during a pre-purchase inspection.



Again, any thoughts, comments, or experiences that you're willing to share are appreciated.



Sincerely,



John Atkin IV

yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Contact Morris Kernick 321-403-8813.  Good luck.  jb

 

   

 

 

   --

John IV

Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 4

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V

JB,



Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call.



John IV



PS.  Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information went out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum?

barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Hi John IV,



Your email got to my Inbox OK, over here in cold, snowy England!



Best Regards,

Barry Collman

Aero Commander Specialist

Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd.



---

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

I saw it on the list, John. 

 



--

John IV

Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 4

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Barry & Nico,



Thank you both for your reply.  I just wanted to make sure the post had made it to the email list.  The lack of responses was making me a bit suspicious that something had gone awry.



Thanks again for your verification.



John IV

tylorhall(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

John,

I got your request and I am surprised that no one replyed.



Do you know much about the 680 turbo prop series.

They all have or had the 3000 PSI hydraulic system turning a pump that does the pressurization in the cabin.

I know one of our members has a 681 and the pressurization has been removed.



The Century series conversions changed to bleed air pressurization as well as the different engine -150.  The 690's came that way from the factory.



Tylor Hall

On Jan 13, 2010, at 2:10 PM, John IV wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 JB,

 

 Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call.

 

 John IV

 

 PS.  Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information went out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 81329#281329

swperk(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Hi John,



I have a 681 Turbo Commander (2 models after the 680V) and it has had the Century engine conversion done, changing from the original TPE331-43BL engines to the TPE331-1-151K engines. One of the major changes from the 680T/V/W/ series to the 681 was factory installed bleed air pressurization. Having said that, my dad used to own a 680W with -43BL engines and it had bleed air pressurization.



One of the advantages of a 680V is that it is exempt from the 208A service bulletin that requires a recurring 36-month spar inspection. Whether that outweighs the disadvantage of having a plane with engines that are minimally supported is a decision that you will have to make.



I'd be happy to talk to you more about any questions you may have, but I have to agree with JB that Morris is by far and away the expert on these planes.



Regards,

Stan

N681SP

--

jtaddington(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Hey Barry, You got the cold we sent. It got down to 8 degrees with a chill

factor of -5. That is cold for 30 north of Dallas. Please don't send it

back.

Here is hoping you have a Happy New Year.

Jim

N444BD

--

John IV

Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 4

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Stan et. al.,



Thanks for all of the replies this evening.  



I'm not particularly well versed in the 680 series of planes, but have spent the last few days digging through the maint. manual, IPC, service letters and flight manual to learn the various systems.  I have to say that it's perhaps not put together quite the way I would have done it (hydraulic motor powered cabin huffer etc) but nothing has jumped out at me as being terribly outlandish so far.



My biggest concern and my reason for making the original posting was to see if anyone knew of any weak points in these aircraft that one should worry about ie. does xxx have a tendency to break at regular intervals or does yyy have a history of failing more often than a similar system on a similar aircraft.



I understand the orphaned nature of the airframe and particularly the engines and while those certainly aren't things working in the planes favor they're items that I'm willing to live with IF the aircraft and its systems are well made and reliable (not more prone to failure to a similar aircraft of similar vintage).



Thanks again for the tips, and please keep them coming.  I'm all ears for anything you're willing to share.



John IV

barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Hi Jim,



Well, last week at RAF Benson, which really isn't that far away, it got down 

to -28 and that was only 2 degrees warmer than at the South Pole.



It was so cold that as Elaine & I spoke, the words froze on the air. We had to 

fry them to hear what we were talking about 



Sorry Jim, but it's on the way back.



Best Regards,

Barry



---

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Sir Barry, that's just tooooo cold. Can you imagine what would've happened

if we didn't have global warming?

 



--

barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:33 am Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Hi Nico,

  

 Well what us Brits ought to be doing right now is  to shovel all the snow & ice into large lorries (trucks), take them to  the coast and dump it into the sea.

 The polar ice caps will then be restored -  problem solved.

 Easy!

  

 Best Regards,

 Barry

  

 ---

jtaddington(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

I always heard the first guy did not have a chance. -28, now that is cold

and having to fry the words is really, really cold. It is supposed to get in

to the 60's here this week. You and Elaine may have to come over to Texas

and warm up.

Best regards to you too,

Jim



--

cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  I have to say that it's perhaps not put 

together quite the way I would have done it (hydraulic motor powered cabin 

huffer etc) but nothing has jumped out at me as being terribly outlandish so 

far.

	
	


   John,

 

 If you had designed the airplane with the technology at hand at the time, you would have used the same systems and components.  Beech used the same set up to pressurize the Queen Air 88 and the King Air A-90.

 

 What isn't jumping out at you but is hiding deep in the airplane is some of what's already been pointed out to you by Tylor Hall.  The New York Airbrake 3000 psi hydraulic pumps are the Achilles' heel of the non-bleed air 680 Turbine models.  They are difficult to find and let me caution you against anyone's idea of field-modifying the 1000 psi version of this pump to produce 3000 psi.   That was tried on a 680V I operated and we ate hydraulic pumps in about 20 hours or less each time.

 

 Next we have the Fairchild air cycle machine.  Great unit ... back in the 1960s.  Check with Morris Kernick on availability and cost of that unit.  Not a high failure rate item, but when it blows its beets, are you going to find one at a reasonable cost?

 

 As far as performance, keep in mind that pre-Century series Garrett engines, the -43 series, merely matched the big piston engines of the day (Lycoming IGSO-540) in power more or less, with the exception that you'd lose power with temperature and altitude very quickly.

 

 Thus, any take off at an altitude over a sea level DENALT is suffering.  The -43 powered 680 series are in the 180 - 210 knot cruise band at altitudes in the high teens;  16,000' DENALT is about its optimum.   I point that out because most of us assume that a turbine powered airplane is going to fly like ... what, gentlemen?   Yes!   A Stripped-Ass Ape!

 

 I realize I may have scorched the reputation of the 680T and V commanders but what I've told you is either the truth or my opinion.  You decide. Morris Kernick will either confirm or correct anything I've said that isn't so.

 

 Engine support you've already been briefed on.  How about the electrical system?  I flew a 680V for some time with a client and I swear, we NEVER figured out how the thing was wired from the factory and subsequent mods.  Luckily, we never had an electrical emergency because I was unable to teach the system in that airplane.  

 

 Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

 

 By the way, a Century series conversion or 681 are excellent examples of what a turbine powered Commander can be.

 

 Wing Commander Gordon

 

   

 

  Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.

   

 

   

 

  --

jtaddington(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Last week we were sure trying to find those people that have ripped the

country and the world off for millions doing a false study on global

warming.

Jim

--

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Can someone put up a link to published performance specs for the 680V? It's very hard to find any data about Aero Commanders in general and I've been thinking of setting up a link on my own website just because I'm so sick of not getting the info I need. The Turbines are the worst. All the links either pertain to the latest 695's or are dead links.



I did enquire about the serviceability of the early Honeywell engines with the 2000hr TBO and got confirmation from Bob Hancock at Hancock Enterprises that they still are vialble, albeit with parts getting more scarce.

_________________
Adam

cschuerm(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:01 pm Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Adam,

You might ask Jim for a copy of the original web site.  Barry provided 

detailed information on every model and I'd created a nice table that 

included everything you'd want to know by model as well as descriptions 

of the changes between models.  When I handed over the web site, that 

was all there.  Hopefully Jim still has it.

chris



stratobee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Can someone put up a link to published performance specs for the 680V? It's very hard to find any data about Aero Commanders in general and I've been thinking of setting up a link on my own website just because I'm so sick of not getting the info I need.

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V

Can you add the long range (474gal) tanks to the older 680V's, 690A's and B's that the 690C and 695 models comes with?

_________________
Adam

aero560e(at)GMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V

You can certainly add the 'slipper' tanks to the 690A & 690B.



On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:06 AM, stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)>

 

 Can you add the long range (474gal) tanks the 690C and 695 models have to the older 680V's, 690A's and B's?

 

 --------

 Adam

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431044#431044

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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