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Cowling Update

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GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:15 pm Post subject: Cowling Update

I began the installation of the second cowling yesterday.  This is going on Martin's plane.  It's in for an annual and cowling.  Martin put a deposit down about a year ago.   

 

  The initial fitting of the cowling is already done.  I have a spare fuselage that I use for fitting.  Today, I'm going to be sanding and detailing the surface.  I've already noticed that the distance used in the joggle at the forward end (where the upper cowling attaches) is about .030 to low.  The tooling will get some fine tuning.  I'm taking a lot of pictures.  

  

 

  "Is the cost worth it?"  Martin asked.  Depends.  

  

 

  From a maintenance stand point, yes.  It's a LOT easier to R&R the new cowling than the old one.  

  

 

  From a checking the oil point of view, no.  Five cam-locks and a screw need to be removed vs opening a door.  

  

 

  From a speed point of view, likely.  Jeff is showing a consistent 5 to 6 knots improvement at the same power settings.  

  

 

  From a CHT point of view, probably.  Jeff is showing a much improved temp distribution and 15 degrees lower temps.

  

 

  From a fuel efficiency point of view, possibly.  I've flown my plane next to four different Tigers at the same speed and 2700 rpm.  At the same speed and roughly the same rpm (they flew 2700 rpm, mine varied), my fuel burn was anywhere between .5 gph and 3 gph less than the other plane.  Is that all the cowling?  or something else?  My plane doesn't have any junk hanging off it like most planes.  So, it's possible that the other planes are just draggy anyway.  

  ----- I flew alongside a very clean 75 Traveler.  This Traveler would true at about 135 knots under most conditions.  At 132 knots true, my fuel flow was about 2 gph less.  My fuel burn was 7.5 gph.  

  

 

  

 

  Plus, it's not just the cowling but all new baffles and baffle seals.  

   [quote][b]

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: Cowling update

I found something during this current installation that will require a change to the installation instructions.   

 

  a B&C starter won't fit.  They are too big.  SOOOOOO

  

 

  Is there anyone out there in Team Grumman-land that wants a B&C starter?  

  

 

  Do you think there might be someone on the 'other' gang that wants one?  send them my way.  I need to order the Sky-Tec.

  

 

  Gary

 

  

 

 

  --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: Cowling update

I didn't think that B&C starters were approved for installation on certified AC. Only by individual FSDO approvals. Therefore you should not expect to see very many of them.....



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 15, 2010, at 9:36 PM, teamgrumman(at)aol.com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com) wrote:



[quote]I found something during this current installation that will require a change to the installation instructions.   

 

  a B&C starter won't fit.  They are too big.  SOOOOOO

  

 

  Is there anyone out there in Team Grumman-land that wants a B&C starter?  

  

 

  Do you think there might be someone on the 'other' gang that wants one?  send them my way.  I need to order the Sky-Tec.

  

 

  Gary

 

  

 

 

  --

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: Cowling update

This would be the place to get it sold quickly

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=3



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 15, 2010, at 9:36 PM, teamgrumman(at)aol.com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com) wrote:



[quote]I found something during this current installation that will require a change to the installation instructions.   

 

  a B&C starter won't fit.  They are too big.  SOOOOOO

  

 

  Is there anyone out there in Team Grumman-land that wants a B&C starter?  

  

 

  Do you think there might be someone on the 'other' gang that wants one?  send them my way.  I need to order the Sky-Tec.

  

 

  Gary

 

  

 

 

  --

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject: Cowling update

i'll try it

 

  

 

 

  --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:46 am Post subject: Cowling update

I think they were STC'd but I'm not sure about  that.

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:48 am Post subject: Cowling update

Go with the 149-NL Sky-Tec, is a much better starter  than the 149-12LS.

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: Cowling update

Cliff, 

You're right. The starters are STCd and PMAd. I ws thinking of their alternators which are fir experimentals only. So Gary you may see mire of these starters 

Her is a link to the starters

http://www.bandc.biz/lycomingstarter12v122ringgearteethstcpma.aspx

Ned



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com (flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com)> wrote:



[quote]  I think they were STC'd but I'm not sure about  that.

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: Cowling update

Keep in mind that the NL is 1.15 lbs heavier right out on the nose of the plane. Not good for those of us the like to maximize speed 

I've had excellent performance from the PM starters

Ned 



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:46 AM, "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com (flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    Go with the 149-NL Sky-Tec, is a much better starter  than the 149-12LS.

  

  [/b] 	


[b]

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: Cowling update

I would gladly sacrifice the extra weight for the  better quality based on what I have seen concerning problems with customers  starters.

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: Cowling update

Actually I have a 20 amp STC'd standby B&C  alternator on my Bonanza.  It's a beautiful installation with it's own ACU  and over amperage warning light.

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:23 am Post subject: Cowling update

I own quite a few things from BandC and also Bob Knuckols. The quality  

is outstanding.



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:09 AM, "flyv35b" <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com> wrote:



 	  Quote:

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: Cowling update

Ned, I'd have to sign up to post the starter for sale.  I really have no interest in joining another group.  If you want to post on the RV list for me, that would be great.  Just give them my cell number.  Phone number.  Not the number of my cell.

 

  

 

 

  --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: Cowling update

I have the 149-12NL in my plane.  I know that one fits.

 

  

 

 

  --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

allenc3(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: Cowling update

Just post it on Barnstormers. It is free and a  B&C  starter will sell in a New York Minute.....

  

 Claude

  

  



  From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com) 

 Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 11:39 PM

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: Re: Cowling update

 



Ned, I'd have to sign up to  post the starter for sale.  I really have no interest in joining another  group.  If you want to post on the RV list for me, that would be great.   Just give them my cell number.  Phone number.  Not the number of  my cell.



 

 -----Original  Message-----

From: teamgrumman(at)aol.com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com)

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent:  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 10:55 pm

Subject: Re: Cowling  update



 i'll try it



 

 -----Original  Message-----

From: Ned Thomas <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)  <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)>

Sent:  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 9:04 pm

Subject: Re: Cowling  update



  This would be the place to get it sold quickly

 



 http://www.vansairforce.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=3



Sent  from my iPhone

 

On Jan 15, 2010, at 9:36 PM, teamgrumman(at)aol.com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com) wrote:

 

  	  Quote: 	
		     I found something during this current    installation that will require a change to the installation instructions.         



   a B&C starter won't fit.  They are too big.  SOOOOOO

   



   Is there anyone out there in Team Grumman-land that wants a B&C    starter?  

   



   Do you think there might be someone on the 'other' gang that wants one?     send them my way.  I need to order the Sky-Tec.

   



   Gary



   

   -----Original    Message-----

From: WILLIAM KELLY <v1rotate(at)verizon.net (v1rotate(at)verizon.net)>

To:  (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent:    Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:35 pm

Subject: Re: Garmin 430    background lighting



      I forget how I adjusted the brightness initially,    but I found it too bright day or night, so I leave a couple of layers of    masking tape bits over the electronic eye on the upper left. Not much for    looks, but it works. You might not think it would matter at night, but even    the random instrument panel light seems to affect the brightness of the 430    screen.  If I recall my past experiences correctly there does not    seem to be any one unit setting that works suitably for both day and night.    Agreed, a dimmer knob would be great.

    

   Bill

   



    	  Quote: 	
		  I did a long night flight last      night and the brightness of the 430s (2 of them) was overwhelming in the      darkness.  I left one on and restarted 	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

	






ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




 	  Quote: 	
		  



ator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:29 am Post subject: Cowling update

How much are you asking? It would be good to  post with a price.

  

 And confirm the telephone number or would you  just as soon have your this email address posted?

  

  

 [quote]   ---

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: Cowling update

Ned,

  

 

 According to the log books, the starter has about 400 hours on it in 2 1/2 years.  The guy puts a lot of hours on his plane.  It isn't on the ground much.   

 

  From the looks of the B&C website, the starter costs $580.  Half of that is $290.  Let's say $250.  It looks new.  Ned, I think you should buy it for your project.  $250 including shipping.  

  

 

  You have my number. 

  Gary

 

  

 

 

  --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:56 am Post subject: Cowling update

Thanks Gary but I already have a new starter on the 540

I placed the ad on Vans



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:29 PM, teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM (teamgrumman(at)AOL.COM) wrote:



[quote] Ned,

  

 

 According to the log books, the starter has about 400 hours on it in 2 1/2 years.  The guy puts a lot of hours on his plane.  It isn't on the ground much.   

 

  From the looks of the B&C website, the starter costs $580.  Half of that is $290.  Let's say $250.  It looks new.  Ned, I think you should buy it for your project.  $250 including shipping.  

  

 

  You have my number. 

  Gary

 

  

 

 

  --

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