Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

oozing valve covers

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RotaxEngines-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: oozing valve covers

Hi Guys,



I'm doing a little survey. How many of you with a 912 ul, uls or 914 have one or more valve covers that ooze oil? Not necessarily a drip, but a little oozing so when you wipe the bottom of the cover it leaves oil on your finger. You may not even see it at times or if you have a cowling the high speed air coming through the cowling just makes a little mess on the belly of the plane. If you can let me know this info it is going to Rotax.



Thanks,

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: oozing valve covers

Roger,

I have one valve cover on my 912ULS that leaks a little oil.

Occasionally a drop hits the muffler and we smell it in the cockpit.

Les



--

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: oozing valve covers

I asked about this at a Rotax service class I attended in Vernon, B.C.

They said they have a slab of glass that they will use as a flat surface to 

lay a piece of fine abrasive paper on and sand the mating surface of the 

valve cover.

I have yet to try it.

Kevin

---

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: oozing valve covers

I have been doing the sanding. Use a piece of 220 grit. Lay the cover flat and as you sand rotate it. It works some times and sometimes not at all. They now recommend 105 in/lbs for valve covers verses the old 90 in/lbs and instead of a dry "O" ring you can use some Loctite 518 or even some Loctite 5910. You don't need much.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:02 am Post subject: oozing valve covers

Roger,

  I have the oozing on my 912UL. Like you said, it is not much, but it is there and I wipe it down whenever I have the cowl open. I never thought much about it as my prior engines were Lyc/Cont which is kind of like a Harley and that generally came with the territory.

                                         Dick Maddux

                                         Kitfox 4

                                         Milton,Fl

  [quote][b]

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: Re: oozing valve covers

Of the three airplanes I've owned with 912UL engines and the many I've worked on, never once had the oil ooze problem you asked about.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:54 am Post subject: Re: oozing valve covers

I have opened my 912 valve covers a few times and I have not yet

had and leak or seepage.



On the other hand, I do have a small ooze from the front of my

gear box, just enough that I need to clean my windscreen every

4-5 hours

_________________
Ira N224XS

Ollie Washburn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Central Florida

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: oozing valve covers

Yes, all 4 of mine ooze oil. I put in all new O rings at Rotax's hefty price but they still leaked. Haven't tried the sandpaper route yet. 600+ hrs on the engine.Ollie   Central FL



 On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 Hi Guys,

 

 I'm doing a little survey. How many of you with a 912 ul, uls or 914 have one or more valve covers that ooze oil? Not necessarily a drip, but a little oozing so when you wipe the bottom of the cover it leaves oil on your finger. You may not even see it at times or if you have a cowling the high speed air coming through the cowling just makes a little mess on the belly of the plane. If you can let me know this info it is going to Rotax.

  

 Thanks,

 

 --------

 Roger Lee

 Tucson, Az.

 Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

 Rotax Repair Center

 520-574-1080

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282149#282149

 



 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



[b]

_________________
Ollie RV6-A & Rans S7S
Central FL

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: Re: oozing valve covers

Don't mean to jump in, but want to ask: Back in the bad old days when I lived under the hoods of my cars, I always took leaking valve covers to indicate possible warping of the heads themselves rather than the covers (as long as the hold-down bolts weren't being overtightened that is). Especially on my air-cooled motorcycles, this was the case more often than not.



I'd be curious to know if in the cases where the covers are starting to leak if any flatness measurements are being taken on the heads as well to see if this might be the cause?



Fortunately, my 912 is still leak-free at about 380 hours. But of course, I'm still on pins and needles waiting for the day when something starts dribbling out somewhere...... and how much that'll cost me...... 



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: Re: oozing valve covers

These oozing issues seem to be popping up when you get some hours on the plane. If you try the sanding method you will see the uneven surface of the valve cover. Once you make a few strokes you will see shiny spots where the sandpaper has done its job, but you will also see some dull spots and these are low spots on the cover casting. Sand until the entire mating surface is shiny. It doesn't take a number of strokes. This isn't a sure fire fix either. We are trying a few sealants to see which works well. Loctite 574 and 5910 show a lot of promise. I'll keep you posted. I am trying to get a better handle on how far reaching the oozing is on the valve covers and we are trying to make sure Rotax stays informed..

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:40 am Post subject: Re: oozing valve covers

 	  Roger Lee wrote: 	
		  These oozing issues seem to be popping up when you get some hours on the plane. If you try the sanding method you will see the uneven surface of the valve cover. Once you make a few strokes you will see shiny spots where the sandpaper has done its job, but you will also see some dull spots and these are low spots on the cover casting. Sand until the entire mating surface is shiny. It doesn't take a number of strokes. This isn't a sure fire fix either. We are trying a few sealants to see which works well. Loctite 574 and 5910 show a lot of promise. I'll keep you posted. I am trying to get a better handle on how far reaching the oozing is on the valve covers and we are trying to make sure Rotax stays informed.. 	




Ah, ok so unevenness is showing up on the cover then?



also, speaking of leaks..... Are there other places that the 912 series eventually springs leaks over time? I'm curious about if they do start to leak when they get on in hours and where the leaks typically occur. 



Like I said, I'm used to my old cars and motorcycles where oil coming out of somewhere is just normal after a while (not to mention looking under the cowling of a lyc/continental here and there).....



Plus a friend of mine has a 912ULS with about 600 hours on it with a considerable leak at the front. Most of it seems to be coming out where the starter attaches to the housing on the engine. It's bad enough to wet the engine and get onto the plane after a while. 



He's going to pull it to have it repaired soon (and I plan to help him pull the motor), but I'm curious what I'm in for too as I put hours on mine 



Thanks,

LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: Re: oozing valve covers

None of my 912UL engines, each with over 700 hours, ever had any leaks anywhere. That said, I was super conscientious about monitoring temperatures and making sure none ever got near the max allowable.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:29 am Post subject: Re: oozing valve covers

The starter does have an "O" ring and it's fairly easy to replace. Part 250-140. It is a 24.4 mm X 3.10 mm. Maryland Metrics is a good place to buy metric "O" rings if you aren't locked into genuine Rotax parts and 1/3 the price. Very unusual for this to part to leak. Check the screws and see if they are tight.  

https://ssl.perfora.net/metricshop.com/rfq.htm



http://mdmetric.com/or/fpm80oringsizelisting.pdf



The only places I have really seen leak are the valve covers (usually an ooze), the oil cooler where the lines attach (these nuts need a wrench put on them once in a while to double check the tightness) and the gearbox (just needs to be re-sealed with Loctite 5910).

I have tracked down a few oil seeps that was thought to be coming from one place and it was really from somewhere else because of the high speed air flowing through and depositing it somewhere else. This is quite common to to miss this diagnosis.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: oozing valve covers

Not sure on the Rotax but on the lycoming when they give a torque range it is always recommended that you use the lowest possible torque.  That keeps the metal in the engine from stretching or warping.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of catz631(at)aol.com

 Sent: January 19, 2010 9:32 AM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: oozing valve covers  

  

  

     

Roger,  

    

 I have the oozing on my 912UL. Like you said, it is not much, but it is there and I wipe it down whenever I have the cowl open. I never thought much about it as my prior engines were Lyc/Cont which is kind of like a Harley and that generally came with the territory.  

    

                                        Dick Maddux  

    

                                        Kitfox 4  

    

                                        Milton,Fl  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9

        [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: oozing valve covers

For what it's worth, a very long time ago while P & M ing about leaky rocker box screws an old time Harley mechanic told me to always make sure the o-ring groove was absolutely clean and dry. His reasoning was that fluids are incompressible and when caught behind the o-ring, the oil wouldn't give but the o-ring would, creating a path for a leak to start. Seems to work no matter the reasoning. 



Rick Girard



On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)> wrote:

[quote]              

Not sure on the Rotax but on the lycoming when they give a torque range it is always recommended that you use the lowest possible torque.  That keeps the metal in the engine from stretching or warping.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of catz631(at)aol.com (catz631(at)aol.com)

  Sent: January 19, 2010 9:32 AM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: oozing valve covers  

  

  

     

Roger,  

    

 I have the oozing on my 912UL. Like you said, it is not much, but it is there and I wipe it down whenever I have the cowl open. I never thought much about it as my prior engines were Lyc/Cont which is kind of like a Harley and that generally came with the territory.  

    

                                        Dick Maddux  

    

                                        Kitfox 4  

    

                                        Milton,Fl  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List  	
0 	  Quote: 	
		    	
1 	  Quote: 	
		    	
2  	  Quote: 	
		    	
3 	  Quote: 	
		    	
4 	  Quote: 	
		    	
5 	  Quote: 	
		    	
6 	  Quote: 	
		    	
7  	  Quote: 	
		    	
8 	  Quote: 	
		    	
9

         	  Quote: 	
		  	
0

[b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: oozing valve covers

If you want to see oil consumption and the more than occasional drop blowing

around just check out any radial!



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

peterlthomson(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: oozing valve covers

500hrs, no oil leaks, runs cold



Peter

CH710SP/912ULS

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: oozing valve covers

The oil leaks that I'm talking about don't come from an over heat or a hot engine. They are vibration caused or the cast valve covers have high and low spots.

I think I have a good solution that seems to be working well. Sand the valve covers on a flat surface with some 220 grit to make sure the surface is flat all the way around the valve cover. Don't be afraid it takes more than a couple of strokes. Clean the "O" ring groves and mating metal surfaces with a solvent. The put the "O" rings in place and coat them with Loctite 574 (orange), both the "O" ring side and the engine mating surface. You do not need to glob it on, but a film around both surfaces and the small "O" ring in the center where the valve cover screw goes through. Them re-mount the valve cover and torque to 115 in/lbs. The normal torque is 105 in/lbs so the additional 10 in/lbs won't hurt anything. So far very good success.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RotaxEngines-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum