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Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:01 am Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Well, I have had it with this unit. The transducer has failed again and it is less than 2 months old and less than 8 hrs !  My first one lasted almost a year. This unit is coming out of my panel and a plug installed in its place until I find something nice to put in that hole.

  I removed the transducer to see what the problem was. The impeller is stuck and I could not get it to move with compressed air or Kroil. I had thought seriously of the the  method of getting my prior transducer to  turn (a 5 LB sledge hammer) but decided otherwise.

  In any case, this piece of c--p is free to anyone that wants it, just pay shipping to my PayPal account.

  Yes, I did install it correctly in the vertical position, right above my gascolator on the firewall. It was a beautiful installation.  Anyone know of a nice instrument of about the same size (2 inch) that gives OAT, flight time,etc. I would then be able to remove some unsightly stuff I have stuck to my panel.

                                                    Dick Maddux

                                                    Fox 4

                                                    Milton,Fl

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

I wonder if you are getting it hot if it is on the front side of the firewall?  Or gunk out of the tank getting into it?  Do you have the filter just before the transducer?



Just wondering cause I have several of them installed on my stuff and have never had a glitch, but mine is behind the seat in the plane just under the header tank.

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Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

On Sun, January 17, 2010 12:13 pm, akflyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I wonder if you are getting it hot if it is on the front side of the firewall?  Or

 gunk out of the tank getting into it?  Do you have the filter just before the

 transducer?



 Just wondering cause I have several of them installed on my stuff and have never had a

 glitch, but mine is behind the seat in the plane just under the header tank.


	


Lenny - Thanks for this thoughtful contribution. You've definitely come up with a

plausible explanation. After Dick Maddux said:



"Well, I have had it with this unit. The transducer has failed again and it is less 

than 2 months old and less than 8 hrs !  My first one lasted almost a year. This unit

is coming out of my panel and a plug installed in its place until I find something

nice to put in that hole.

 I removed the transducer to see what the problem was. The impeller is stuck and I

could not get it to move with compressed air or Kroil. I had thought seriously of the

the  method of getting my prior transducer to  turn (a 5 LB sledge hammer) ...."



I made a mental note that I guess I won't be using one of those Northstar units but

now I think you're on to something. It can't be so bad that it has 100% failure rate.

It must be failing due to some configuration or usage problem. Hopefully Dick will do

a little more experimenting before pronouncing the product dead and useless.

-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell



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_________________
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Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:26 am Post subject: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Dick, I have a navman 2100  I think it called.  I think the one you have replaced it .  Mine is over 4 years old and put through over 7000 gallon of gas--ethanol regular avgas marine gas whatever. I have noticed a few times it stops fora minute or two but continues on. 



Mine us mounted on front of firewall almost vertical  after the gascolator.  Most of my fuel goes through a filter funnel as well. 



There are better fuel flow meters on the market  for 300 $ up .

Dave

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Just to "balance the scales", so to speak, I've never had an issue  

with my F210 unit, and my transducer is located inside the cabin at  

an angle of not quite vertical...maybe 30 degrees from vertical, with  

a Purolator glass filter just before the transducer.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 839.2 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~162 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

On Jan 17, 2010, at 11:36 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <paul(at)eucleides.com>



 On Sun, January 17, 2010 12:13 pm, akflyer wrote:

> 

>

> I wonder if you are getting it hot if it is on the front side of  

> the firewall?  Or

> gunk out of the tank getting into it?  Do you have the filter just  

> before the

> transducer?

>

> Just wondering cause I have several of them installed on my stuff  

> and have never had a

> glitch, but mine is behind the seat in the plane just under the  

> header tank.



 Lenny - Thanks for this thoughtful contribution. You've definitely  

 come up with a

 plausible explanation. After Dick Maddux said:



 "Well, I have had it with this unit. The transducer has failed  

 again and it is less

 than 2 months old and less than 8 hrs !  My first one lasted almost  

 a year. This unit

 is coming out of my panel and a plug installed in its place until I  

 find something

 nice to put in that hole.

  I removed the transducer to see what the problem was. The impeller  

 is stuck and I

 could not get it to move with compressed air or Kroil. I had  

 thought seriously of the

 the  method of getting my prior transducer to  turn (a 5 LB sledge  

 hammer) ...."



 I made a mental note that I guess I won't be using one of those  

 Northstar units but

 now I think you're on to something. It can't be so bad that it has  

 100% failure rate.

 It must be failing due to some configuration or usage problem.  

 Hopefully Dick will do

 a little more experimenting before pronouncing the product dead and  

 useless.

 -- 

 Paul A. Franz

 Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

 Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

 Bellevue WA

 425.241.1618 Cell

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:15 am Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Leonard,

   The transducer was located about 3 inches above the firewall gascolator inside the engine compartment against the firewall. I had it wrapped in heat shield material and it is about 1 1/2 ft from the muffler. I sure didn't see any caution about using it in in the engine compartment in the instructions. That's where it would have to go in a boat.

  I removed the transducer yesterday and looked unto the interior of the thing The small rotor was "stuck tighter then a bulls ass at fly time" to quote an old buddy of mine! I couldn't move it with compressed air or a piece of safety wire. There was no trash in there I could see. The unit looked fine otherwise.

  Anyway, I bought another piece of 5/16 injection hose and have removed the transducer from the system (gauge to follow) It wasn't giving me much useful info anyway. It was never accurate no mater how many times I tweaked it. Half the time the buttons would not work. I guess you get what you pay for. You must have lucked out. The net has many failures of this unit and it sure did not suprise the Northstar tech when I told him about it.There was a 5 month backlog just in replacing these transducers !

  Anyway,done,nada,fine,no more of this instrument ! 

  Thanks for your input Leonard.I appreciate it.

                                                                  Dick Maddux

                                                                  Fox 4

                                                                  Milton,Fl

          

  [quote][b]

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

I removed the transducer and looked at the internal rotor in bright sunlight. With a magnifying glass you could see that the rotor had jammed itself against the side of the tube. Apparently it had started to wobble in it's mounts I guess and that was that. This is the same thing that happened to my prior transducer. At least this was a good test of fuel flow with a jammed rotor. There was definite resistance as I blew through the transducer but not enough to block fuel flow to the engine as it was running fine. I looked at my logbook and it has been right at a year since I installed this instrument and cycled thru two tansducers.This was less than 75 hrs of flying! 

  Lynn, you and Leonard have had good luck with this unit. Maybe a different mfg. made the transducers as your units are older than mine. In any case, that's enough for me! I will find something else to fill that hole in my panel

                                                      Dick Maddux

                                                      Fox 4

                                                      Milton,Fl

  [quote][b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Dick I was just flying and my fuel flow  was not showing any flow rate. 

do you got a voodoo doll over there?    



LOL

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

The bearings in the transducer may be the reason they like to see a vertical installation.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of catz631(at)aol.com

 Sent: January 19, 2010 9:58 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge  

  

  

     

I removed the transducer and looked at the internal rotor in bright sunlight. With a magnifying glass you could see that the rotor had jammed itself against the side of the tube. Apparently it had started to wobble in it's mounts I guess and that was that. This is the same thing that happened to my prior transducer. At least this was a good test of fuel flow with a jammed rotor. There was definite resistance as I blew through the transducer but not enough to block fuel flow to the engine as it was running fine. I looked at my logbook and it has been right at a year since I installed this instrument and cycled thru two tansducers.This was less than 75 hrs of flying!   

    

 Lynn, you and Leonard have had good luck with this unit. Maybe a different mfg. made the transducers as your units are older than mine. In any case, that's enough for me! I will find something else to fill that hole in my panel  

    

                                                     Dick Maddux  

    

                                                     Fox 4  

    

                                                     Milton,Fl  

   	  Quote: 	
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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Dave,

  I am sorry to hear about the failure in your gauge but in some ways I am going ...Yessssss !  The old adage "misery loves company" is true in this case. I hate being the only one that ever has a problem with a product.(it has been that way lately)

  Perhaps voodoo did have something to do with it.

  Anyway, I do hope you find the problem and if it is a jammed rotor in the transducer, tell Northstar about it.

 My transducer was mounted perfectly vertical as per the instructions and both of them failed in short order 

                                                    Dick Maddux

                                                    Fox 4

                                                    Milton,Fl

  [quote][b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Will go flying later today 

  

 I had this afew times before with it cleared up 

  

 this time ?   no idea

  

 Wil let you know 

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:03 am Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Dick ok, just went for a quick flight 

  

  

 -7 C here today and still shows zero 

  

 oh well

 [quote]   ---

mikeperkins

Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 123

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

It's a little scary to jump into this hot topic when it almost seems to have settle down, but anyway. . . . I've probably got 35 hours on my F210. 

A pre-installation volume test showed that it was within 5%, as advertised. After some flight testing to determine flow rates at different steady airspeeds, I started using fuel flow to set the power of my 532 instead of the tach. So I began to refer to it quite frequently for small throttle adjustments while in cruise.

At least three times I've seen the fuel flow drop to zero and stay there for a minute or so; once during warm-up, once at cruise during the day, and once at cruise on a black, moonless night (a bit disconcerting). 

It seems clear from all these excellent postings that this instrument is inconsistent from one unit and another, and that perhaps the fault lies mostly in the transducer. 

A flight instrument with this kind of track record would probably be blackballed.



Mike Perkins

sdemeyer

Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 45

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

For what it's worth, I have 74 hours on mine and it works great. Never had any problems, so far.



Scott



--- On Wed, 1/20/10, mikeperkins <michael.perkins(at)rauland.com> wrote:

[quote]

From: mikeperkins <michael.perkins(at)rauland.com>

Subject: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 8:36 PM



--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "mikeperkins" <[url=/mc/compose?to=michael.perkins(at)rauland.com]michael.perkins(at)rauland.com[/url]>



It's a little scary to jump into this hot topic when it almost seems to have settle down, but anyway. . . . I've probably got 35 hours on my  F210. 

A pre-installation volume test showed that it was within 5%, as advertised. After some flight testing to determine flow rates at different steady airspeeds, I started using fuel flow to set the power of my 532 instead of the tach. So I began to refer to it quite frequently for small throttle adjustments while in cruise.

At least three times I've seen the fuel flow drop to zero and stay there for a minute or so; once during warm-up, once at cruise during the day, and once at cruise on a black, moonless night (a bit disconcerting). 

It seems clear from all these excellent postings that this instrument is inconsistent from one unit and another, and that perhaps the fault lies mostly in the transducer. 

A flight instrument with this kind of track record would probably be blackballed.



Mike Perkins





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282647#282========================http://www.matronics.com/Nav=               - MATRONICS cs.com" bsp;               -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution [quote][b]

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

>      A flight instrument with this kind of track record would probably be blackballed.

      

Thanks Mike ! , I agree  !

                                         Dick Maddux

                                         Milton, Fl

  [quote][b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: Update and Good news Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Dick, 



I just in from flying , before I took off I saw something under the dash that look askew.  Was the plug from the Navman hanging there  LOL 



plugged it back together went flying.............   it works LoL 



I guess you never did jinx it.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

May be ethanol on the transducer... sorry coudn’t resist.... like I tried J  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Fisher

 Sent: January 20, 2010 1:33 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge  

  

  

     

Dick ok, just went for a quick flight   

    

   

    

   

    

-7 C here today and still shows zero   

    

   

    

oh well  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Dave Fisher (dave(at)cfisher.com)   

    

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:36 AM  

    

Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge  

    

   

    

Will go flying later today   

    

   

    

I had this afew times before with it cleared up   

    

   

    

this time ?   no idea  

    

   

    

Wil let you know   

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: catz631(at)aol.com (catz631(at)aol.com)   

    

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:33 AM  

    

Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge  

    

   

    

Dave,  

    

 I am sorry to hear about the failure in your gauge but in some ways I am going ...Yessssss !  The old adage "misery loves company" is true in this case. I hate being the only one that ever has a problem with a product.(it has been that way lately)  

    

 Perhaps voodoo did have something to do with it.  

    

 Anyway, I do hope you find the problem and if it is a jammed rotor in the transducer, tell Northstar about it.  

    

My transducer was mounted perfectly vertical as per the instructions and both of them failed in short order   

    

                                                   Dick Maddux  

    

                                                   Fox 4  

    

                                                   Milton,Fl  

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: Northstar F210 Fuel flow gauge

Dick, 

      

      I just in from flying , before I took off I saw something under the dash that look

      askew.  Was the plug from the Navman hanging there  LOL 

      

      plugged it back together went flying.............   it works LoL 

      

      I guess you never did jinx it.

      



  

 AAhhh Rats !  I guess it's just me that had the failures. Glad you got her running again !

                                                            Dick

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