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flyingphil2
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 117
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 Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:39 am Post subject: Shoot bolts |
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Hi,
To those that have gone before me .......
I'm working on the door latches and getting the shoot bolts (DL06) installed inside the DL07 guides. Taking previous advice I'm looking at the dimensions in the manual and what I actually have in front of me.
I haven't glued the guides in yet but a dry set up shows that my worst case is on the front door bolts and at worst with the doors latched, I have 10mm of the parallel section (20mm total) of the DL06 protruding. Is that going to be enough? I remember reading about this on the forum ages ago but I can't find the posting in question.
Regards,
Phil
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jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:57 am Post subject: Shoot bolts |
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Phil
There were a few modifications to the mechanisms driving th e shoot bolts
Maybe you should mention your kit number and date of purchase.
JR (Bob)Gowing UK kit 327
do not archive
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flyingphil2
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Shoot bolts |
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Hi,
My kit has an XS fuselage but I have all the parts to make it up to the current production spec (ie flat bar etc) and also have been fitting the cockpit width mod. Regardless of all that, I guess the length of protrusion of the shoot bolts would remain the same across all aircraft. I guess my question is 'what is safe' as I know several doors have been lost in the past due to the bolts not closing securely.
Regards,
Phil
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:26 am Post subject: Shoot bolts |
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Phil
also worth a serious look at Paul McAllister's shoot bolts but I
wouldn't do the third bolt, it weakens the bottom rail / sill too much,
go with a simple latch.that uses the flexibility of the door to latch.
Get a second set of bushes and put those into the fuselage door frame
Graham
On 18/01/2010 10:55, JR Gowing wrote:
[quote]
Phil
There were a few modifications to the mechanisms driving th e shoot bolts
Maybe you should mention your kit number and date of purchase.
JR (Bob)Gowing UK kit 327
do not archive
---
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rparigoris
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 792
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: Shoot bolts |
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Hi Graham" I wouldn't do the third bolt, it weakens the bottom rail / sill too much, go with a simple latch.that uses the flexibility of the door to latch. Get a second set of bushes and put those into the fuselage door frame"I put a 3/16" pin on door frame and striker plate on door, simple and works well.:[url=http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId 9082&g2_page=3]http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId 9082&g2_page=3[/url]I left lift strut in original position and installed similar pin and striker to hold upper aft part of door in shape.Ron Parigoris [quote][b]
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:23 pm Post subject: Shoot bolts |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Phil,
I have built over 12 sets of doors. They all work using the current manual. In my opinion doors come off because of improper latching or due to a poor fitting door. I come from a family of contractors and master craftsmen. I had a lot of experience with doors. No latch will work until the door fits and operates correctly first. Here are some of my techniques for you to consider when following the manual.
1. Make the door fit the rebate precisely. No bows at the bottom or hard pushes to get them into the rebate.
As my friend Carl Reichle says "snick". I do heat the doors and massage them into shape before doing any fitting of hardware.
2. Make everything in the mechanism work flawlessly smooth on the bench. It takes time. Drill the 1/8 inch holes for keying in the plate. The holes I do look like the manual and will be cleco alignment holes later.
3. Install the mechanism in the door and relieve the inside of the door glue until it is in tight. Even make a dimple for the weld points. Make sure the handle is oriented parallel to the door bottom and all clears. Draw a line on the door. (Measure the spot for the hole for the handle and believe it or not I have always been within 1mm of that point.) I use clecos to pull the steel up hard and make sure I have plenty of the 5/8 tube sticking through the door which will allow the outer handle to clear the glass latter on. Once it is perfectly aligned, disassemble and Redux in the plate, install clecos through the 1/8 inch holes in the door and clean up the face well. If you are worried about the handle alignment reinstall it, tweak it in place and allow to cure.
4. Make your rods at this time but make them long and only finish the inner ends of the door bars or rods using either the round stock or flat bar, your choice. Personally I make the ends of the round rods with a longer flat than called for for later trimming.
5. Lay the rods on the outside of the door in the latched position and look how the rods lay on the outside of the door. Bend the rods to the door shape and bend the ends to be aligned with the door side and handle mechanism. Rough cut the holes in the door where the manual says for the guides but don't glue them yet.
6. Install the rods with 525 10R8 bolts instead of roll pins ( I make a modified 525 10R10 with a button head and shorten the threads to fit in for the final) and ensure they work flawlessly through their rough holes, check the rods are bent and they do not rub against the inside of the door or bind against the mechanism. The rod ends need to exit aligned perpendicular to the door and parallel to its bottom. Then insert the guide and check again. Hopefully a little of the bar will be sticking out.
7. Set the guides in and check that the door will fit the rebate with the guide in. Some doors need a little rebate cut in for the flange to fit perfectly. A dremel tool with a 1/2 inch Permagrit barrel works best for this. Make sure the alignment is dead square. If you want, now tack with 5 min or superglue the guide. When you fit the door in the rebate, you will see that the door guide in the fuselage needs to be rebated in to be aligned perfectly level and square with the door guide.
Important: Your rod length and door shoot bolt length aren't fixed yet. The latch depends on how the door fits. How tight the distance is between the door guide and the fuselage guide.
8. With the door guides tacked in, now put your shoot bolt on the rod end and mark the end of the rod where the end of the shoot bolt would be even with the outer end of the guide. Once this length is marked, disassemble and lay the shoot bolt against the rod and figure where to drill the hole to fix the shoot bolt to the rod. This method will insure the shoot bolt is extended to the maximum possible when the latch is in the closed position. Most of the time I get 1/2 of an inch. No less than 3/8 please.
9. Now reinstall the rod and shoot bolt. Trim the rod end with a file until its motion in the guide clears. How I do this is I take the rod and shoot bolt assembly and deflect the shoot bolt until the end of the rod sticks up above the shoot bolt. I use my burnishing wheel but a file will take care of the high spot where it will bind. Then I take a dremel with a cutoff wheel and grind the ends of the roll pin down until it all slides through the guide "snick".
10. Now crack the guide free and assemble the rods into the door and glue in the guides in absolutely perpendicular to the ends of the doors and straight. Use a straight bar along the door to make sure of alignment. Let cure.
Now I install the door and hinges per the manual using the supplied items. If the door ever opens I want it gone without tearing up the plane. Check the hinge area in the plane is not thin. Some planes only had a couple plies by mistake. Add only if you can see through the glass/gelcoat and there is only two layers. A flashlight is all that's needed.
When the door is hinged, then I set my shoot bolt guides per the manual. Once the hole in the fuselage is just the size of the bolt, I open it up for the guide. I set the distance between the guides by using a thin AN960 8-16L 1/2 inch washer for clearance between the two guides. I operate the door mechanism until alignment is perfect. Rebate the fuselage as required. Yes I have the two shoot bolt guides very close to one another. But the door is fit so well that it falls into the small slot. It helps when closing the door, because if the door is being bent during closure, it is obvious if the door hits the shoot bolt guide. But I do cheat and add redux around the flange to make a smooth transition that is pleasing to the eye.
Now when it cures the door handle should thunk by its spring alone to the fully locked position. You will have 1/2 inch of guide sticking into the fuselage. The only force necessary to close the door will be slight downward pressure to compress the door seal.
It takes 40 hours to do nice doors...It's an airplane. Doors and canopies are a tough job, but it is the part that gets used over and over.
I have never had my shirt sleeve pulled, a door bulged or feared one of my installations. It just takes time. I have added microswitches to contact the door bolts when in the closed position, or made a hole in the upholstery so one can visually see the bolt installed. Your choice.
Hope this didn't put you to sleep or confuse you. Call if you need clarification.
Bud Yerly
CFC/Europa
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flyingphil2
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Shoot bolts |
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Hi,
Thanks for all the replies. Bud - I'm going to email you.
Cheers,
Phil
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