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Elevator and aileron push tubes

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mjpienaar(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject: Elevator and aileron push tubes

Does one use soft or hard (A or AD) aluminum rivets  to secure the threaded rod ends in the elevator and aileron push/pull  tubes

  

 Thanks

  

 Mike

 

    [quote][b]

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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:07 am Post subject: Elevator and aileron push tubes

I used hard rivits.

  

 Al

  

 



 

 On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Mike Pienaar <mjpienaar(at)shaw.ca (mjpienaar(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

 [quote]  Does one use soft or hard (A or AD) aluminum rivets to secure the threaded rod ends in the elevator and aileron push/pull tubes

  

 Thanks

  

 Mike

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  



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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: Elevator and aileron push tubes

1/27/2010



Hello Mike, Definitely the hard rivets.



Attached is a picture of a KIS TR-1 that had an aileron push tube 

disconnect. It was never conclusively proved what caused the end of the 

aileron tube to become disconnected. Could have sheared off.



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and 

understand knowledge."



PS: Very dramatic story of how the pilot survived.



===============================================



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richard_trickel(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:02 am Post subject: Elevator and aileron push tubes

who´s plane is this/

 RICH



--- On Wed, 1/27/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

Subject: Re: Elevator and aileron push tubes

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com, "Mike Pienaar" <mjpienaar(at)shaw.ca>

Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 5:26 AM



 1/27/2010



Hello Mike, Definitely the hard rivets.



Attached is a picture of a KIS TR-1 that had an aileron push tube disconnect. It was never conclusively proved what caused the end of the aileron tube to become disconnected. Could have sheared off.



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge."



PS: Very dramatic story of how the pilot survived.



===============================================



---

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jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglo
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: Elevator and aileron push tubes

Do you know any more details?

  

 I had an aileron disconnected while flying a glider. The controls of the glider got very asymmetric but the glider was controllable and I landed on my airport.

 I am surprised that the loss of one aileron resulted in accident. Somehow the aileron must have been jammed in an extreme position.

  

 Jerzy



--- On Wed, 1/27/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

Subject: Re: Elevator and aileron push tubes

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com, "Mike Pienaar" <mjpienaar(at)shaw.ca>

Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 7:26 AM



 1/27/2010



Hello Mike, Definitely the hard rivets.



Attached is a picture of a KIS TR-1 that had an aileron push tube disconnect. It was never conclusively proved what caused the end of the aileron tube to become disconnected. Could have sheared off.



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge."



PS: Very dramatic story of how the pilot survived.



===============================================



---

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richard_trickel(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:47 am Post subject: Elevator and aileron push tubes

i THINK i REMEMBER THE STORY NOW.  the push pull tube from the belcrank to the aileron was never riveted by the original builder.  This guy was the second owner and the plane had several hundred hours flying like that.  PAYS TO DO A PROPER ANUAL INSPECTION ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR BUYING SOMEONE ELSES PLANE.

 Rich



--- On Thu, 1/28/10, jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net>

Subject: Re: Elevator and aileron push tubes

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 8:30 AM



      Do you know any more details?

  

 I had an aileron disconnected while flying a glider. The controls of the glider got very asymmetric but the glider was controllable and I landed on my airport.

 I am surprised that the loss of one aileron resulted in accident. Somehow the aileron must have been jammed in an extreme position.

  

 Jerzy



--- On Wed, 1/27/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

Subject: Re: Elevator and aileron push tubes

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com, "Mike Pienaar" <mjpienaar(at)shaw.ca>

Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 7:26 AM



 1/27/2010



Hello Mike, Definitely the hard rivets.



Attached is a picture of a KIS TR-1 that had an aileron push tube disconnect. It was never conclusively proved what caused the end of the aileron tube to become disconnected. Could have sheared off.



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge."



PS: Very dramatic story of how the pilot survived.



===============================================



---

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wschertz(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: Elevator and aileron push tubes

As I recall, the aileron end fitting was NOT  riveted on that airplane. It had flown for several years before separating.  

 Bill Schertz

KIS Cruiser  #4045

N343BS

Phase I testing

  



  From: jerzy krasinski (jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net) 

 Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:30 AM

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Elevator and aileron push  tubes

 



                   Do you know any more details?

        

       I had an aileron disconnected while flying a glider. The controls of        the glider got very asymmetric but the glider was controllable and I        landed on my airport.

       I am surprised that the loss of one aileron resulted in accident.        Somehow the aileron must have been jammed in an extreme position.

        

       Jerzy



--- On Wed, 1/27/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net) <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>        wrote:



        	  Quote: 	
		  

From:          bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

Subject: Re: KIS-List:          Elevator and aileron push tubes

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com, "Mike          Pienaar" <mjpienaar(at)shaw.ca>

Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010,          7:26 AM



         1/27/2010



Hello Mike, Definitely the hard          rivets.



Attached is a picture of a KIS TR-1 that had an aileron          push tube disconnect. It was never conclusively proved what caused the          end of the aileron tube to become disconnected. Could have sheared          off.



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to          gather and understand knowledge."



PS: Very dramatic story of how          the pilot          survived.



======================



-----          Original Message ----- From: "Mike Pienaar" <mjpienaar(at)shaw.ca (mjpienaar(at)shaw.ca)>

To:          "KISBUILDERS" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>

Sent:          Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:20 AM

Subject: Elevator and          aileron push tubes

Does one use soft or hard (A or AD)          aluminum rivets to secure the threaded rod ends in the elevator and          aileron push/pull        tubes



Thanks



Mike

	
[quote]



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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject: Elevator and aileron push tubes

1/28/2010



Hello Jerzy,You wrote: "Somehow the aileron must have been jammed in an 

extreme position."



That is the conclusion that the accident pilot came to.



As to the actual cause of the aileron push tube disconnect that was never 

conclusively proved. The FAA / NTSB investigators at the scene came to one 

conclusion and some friends of the accident pilot, who also went to the 

scene, did not agree with the FAA / NTSB investigators conclusion.



The confusion involved: comparing the length of the two respective tubes, 

the existence or not of rivets and rivet holes in the end of the tube and 

the fitting, the clean cut end appearance of the tube, and some part(s) that 

were never found.



You can do further research by going to the Matronic search site for the KIS 

list, searching for "bohemier" and look around Sep 2007. Here is the 

official accident report, but it may not be entirely accurate:



http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070911X01368&key=1



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and 

understand knowledge."



===============================================



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