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airlincoln(at)sbcglobal.n
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 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: revised Z13/8 schematic |
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Bob --
Thanks for sending me the link for the drawing files. I was able to download the one for Z-13/8 and figure out how to modify it using TurboCAD 2D for Mac. I personalized it for my particular airplane (an RV-7A with one magneto and one electronic ignition) which was a very good exercise to go through...it generated a lot of questions, most of which I was able to get answers to. I changed the SD-8 wiring to comply with the installation instructions from B&C (I understand that I will not have the "self-starting" feature discussed in the AEC) but I don't understand why the circuit protection (the 2A breaker) comes downstream of the AUX ALT switch -- doesn't the switch always follow the protection? Perhaps with short wire runs it doesn't matter. I also changed the starter/ignition circuits to comply with Z-27, moved some of the wire termination points and signified the wires that will have to pass through the firewall.
I'm attaching a relatively small .pdf file of my revised Z-13/8 drawing (I know there's a worry about bogging down the Matronics servers) -- it's only 620 KB which is well under the 1MB limit -- and I know there's probably a lot of RV builders that will utilize Z-13/8. This version might help them as they begin to visualize where all the electrical components get located. If anyone wants to review it and offer feedback that would be very much appreciated as well. Thanks again Bob.
Lincoln Keill
RV-7A
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grnord
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 5
Location: Council Bluffs IA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: revised Z13/8 schematic |
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The aux alternator won't ever work: the OV disconnect relay has no power source [for its coil - ed.] and it's grounded at both ends when the switch is closed. Other than that I don't see any glitches.
In Z-13/8 the two "extra" wires to the left end of the relay coil (the ones with diodes) show that end of the coil a positive potential always, either from the battery or from the dynamo once it's on line; closing the Aux Alt switch shows ground potential to the coil's right end causing current to flow and closing the relay.
Rick Nordgarden
Council Bluffs IA
Dragonfly in the works
[Edited for clarity, completeness and I.D.]
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mprather(at)spro.net
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: revised Z13/8 schematic |
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The breaker isn't there so much to protect the wire.. It works as part of
the crowbar overvoltage protection. If the overvoltage module detects the
correct conditions, it works by firing an SCR which shorts across the coil
of the disconnect relay, which also shorts the feed to the coil. This
causes the breaker to open and keeps the alternator relay open and the
alternator off line until the breaker is reset.
Regards,
Matt-
| Quote: | Bob --
Thanks for sending me the link for the drawing files. I was able to
download the one for Z-13/8 and figure out how to modify it using TurboCAD
2D for Mac. I personalized it for my particular airplane (an RV-7A with
one magneto and one electronic ignition) which was a very good exercise to
go through...it generated a lot of questions, most of which I was able to
get answers to. I changed the SD-8 wiring to comply with the installation
instructions from B&C (I understand that I will not have the
"self-starting" feature discussed in the AEC) but I don't understand why
the circuit protection (the 2A breaker) comes downstream of the AUX ALT
switch -- doesn't the switch always follow the protection? Perhaps with
short wire runs it doesn't matter. I also changed the starter/ignition
circuits to comply with Z-27, moved some of the wire termination points
and signified the wires that will have to pass through the firewall.
I'm attaching a relatively small .pdf file of my revised Z-13/8 drawing (I
know there's a worry about bogging down the Matronics servers) -- it's
only 620 KB which is well under the 1MB limit -- and I know there's
probably a lot of RV builders that will utilize Z-13/8. This version
might help them as they begin to visualize where all the electrical
components get located. If anyone wants to review it and offer feedback
that would be very much appreciated as well. Thanks again Bob.
Lincoln KeillRV-7A
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Bob McC
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 258
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: revised Z13/8 schematic |
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Lincoln;
You express concern about bandwidth, yet posted the identical message twice. [img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CAA2C2.DAE757F0[/img] (I know --- it happens) [img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CAA2C2.DAE757F0[/img]
The S704-1 controlling the Aux Alt has both ends of the coil grounded. Therefore won’t work.
The battery contactor is drawn with the coil shorted. Closing the master will smoke some wires.
The E-bus alt feed relay is drawn with the coil shorted. Closing the E-bus alternate feed switch will blow the 15A fuse.
The shorts on the above relay coils seem to be labeled as two different diode models. If the intention was that these shorts are diodes, why two different ones? Using one model of diode simplifies things slightly.
Bob McC
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 6:42 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: revised Z13/8 schematic
Bob --
Thanks for sending me the link for the drawing files
----Big snip---
If anyone wants to review it and offer feedback that would be very much appreciated as well. Thanks again Bob.
Lincoln Keill
RV-7A
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_________________
Bob McC
Falco #908
(just starting) |
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grnord
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 5
Location: Council Bluffs IA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: revised Z13/8 schematic |
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Bob McC,
The OP's schematic has diode numbers near the "shorts" but no diode symbols there because of a file-transfer problem the OP apparently didn't notice (it took me a while to notice when it first happened to me): when copying a file from the AeroElectric site to one's own drafting system, the diode symbols may not make the trip; dunno why not, and dunno if it happens with all drafting software... The diode numbers are as printed in Z-13/8 so Mr. Nuckolls would be the one to say why they're different. I've noticed that, too, but haven't asked yet.
Rick Nordgarden
Council Bluffs IA
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: revised Z13/8 schematic |
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At 10:52 PM 1/31/2010, you wrote:
Bob McC,
The OP's schematic has diode numbers near the "shorts" but no
diode symbols there because of a file-transfer problem the OP
apparently didn't notice (it took me a while to notice when it first
happened to me): when copying a file from the AeroElectric site to
one's own drafting system, the diode symbols may not make the trip;
dunno why not, and dunno if it happens with all drafting software...
Porting work product to other CAD systems can
be problematic. In the BIG world we use standardized
file transfer prototcols like Step Files and IGES.
But even these multi-killobuck systems will stub
their toe from time to time.
Just for grins, I've posted Z-18/8Q as a .dxf file
here . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8Q.dxf
See your TurboCAD will suck this in any cleaner.
.DXF is a very rudimentary file transfer system that
converts every entity into pen-strokes. Text and symbols
are a series of lines and arcs.
The diode numbers are as printed in Z-13/8 so Mr. Nuckolls would
be the one to say why they're different. I've noticed that, too, but
haven't asked yet.
The diodes are very NON critical. The 1N4000 series
are nice because they're small, the IN5400 series
handy because they're mechanically robust. Either
works fine . . . as would any other part number with
a 50V or greater rating.
Bob . . .
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