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Door Flex

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speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: Door Flex

I have been wondering about how much door flex plays into the equation.  I tried mine and it will only flex outward only about 1/8 to 3/16” no matter how much I push out while it is latched.  I have the metal pin receptacles.  I am wondering if some doors flex much more adding to the possibility of unlatching.  

   

How much to others doors flex while latched?  

   

Gary Specketer  

       [quote][b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: Door Flex

I'm intrigued by the reports of "bowing".  I've never noticed

mine bowing at all, and they don't flex, either.  I wonder if

that has more to do with the hole location where the pins

go through than anything else.  Mine has to be pulled ALL

the way in to get the pins in the holes.  I built it so that

those pins really suck that door in tight.  Perhaps the

bowing happens if builders leave a little more slop in the

doors by having the holes a tiny bit outboard?

Anyway, no bowing/flexing or anything that I've seen.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

gary wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have been wondering about how much door flex plays into the equation.  

 I tried mine and it will only flex outward only about 1/8 to 3/16” no 

 matter how much I push out while it is latched.  I have the metal pin 

 receptacles.  I am wondering if some doors flex much more adding to the 

 possibility of unlatching.

 

  

 

 How much to others doors flex while latched?

 

  

 

 Gary Specketer

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:23 pm Post subject: Door Flex

I think the door bowing could be possibly what Tim said but also if the

doors are not joined properly with the 3 dimensional glass cloth that is

used when joining the 2 door halves. This would allow the doors to flex more

in the middle. If that bond has been compromised somehow that would

definitely let the door bow in the center. I have tried to bend my doors

before attached to the airframe and they were very strong. 



Geoff



Geoff Combs

President

Aerosport Modeling & Design

8090 Howe Industrial Parkway 

Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110

614-834-5227p

614-834-5230f

www.aerosportmodeling.com

--

_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: Door Flex

I forgot all about that...you're right, could be in the glassing of

the doors, too.  Good catch.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Geoff Combs wrote:

[quote] 

 

 I think the door bowing could be possibly what Tim said but also if the

 doors are not joined properly with the 3 dimensional glass cloth that is

 used when joining the 2 door halves. This would allow the doors to flex more

 in the middle. If that bond has been compromised somehow that would

 definitely let the door bow in the center. I have tried to bend my doors

 before attached to the airframe and they were very strong. 

 

 Geoff

 

 Geoff Combs

 President

 Aerosport Modeling & Design

 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway 

 Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110

 614-834-5227p

 614-834-5230f

 www.aerosportmodeling.com

 

 

 --

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject: Door Flex

For those early RV-10 builders, remember that Van's original doors on the prototype had a bowing problem.  I recall them discussing it at the RV-10 forum at OSH and citing that as the reason for the original finishing kit delays.  That's when they put the reinforcing graphite strips in the door shells and proclaimed the issue resolved.  There were never doors delivered to customers without the graphite reinforcement.



As others have said, it very well may be that some have an issue with the internal 3-D cloth not being properly installed.  And, having the pins be a "comfortable" fit rather than really tight could also easily be a factor.



Bob

RV-10 N442PM (flying)

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: Door Flex

I wonder if the door halves haven't debonded along the bottom .... in 

the doors that bow out.

Linn

Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I'm intrigued by the reports of "bowing".  I've never noticed

 mine bowing at all, and they don't flex, either.  I wonder if

 that has more to do with the hole location where the pins

 go through than anything else.  Mine has to be pulled ALL

 the way in to get the pins in the holes.  I built it so that

 those pins really suck that door in tight.  Perhaps the

 bowing happens if builders leave a little more slop in the

 doors by having the holes a tiny bit outboard?

 Anyway, no bowing/flexing or anything that I've seen.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

 gary wrote:

> I have been wondering about how much door flex plays into the 

> equation.  I tried mine and it will only flex outward only about 1/8 

> to 3/16” no matter how much I push out while it is latched.  I have 

> the metal pin receptacles.  I am wondering if some doors flex much 

> more adding to the possibility of unlatching.

>

>  

>

> How much to others doors flex while latched?

>

>  

>

> Gary Specketer

>

dmaib(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject: Door Flex

Mine are the same as yours, Gary. Very little flexing. I have watched the pilot door during descents at speeds near Vne and see the same.



David Maib

40559

flying



 



 



On Jan 28, 2010, at 3:49 PM, gary wrote:

I have been wondering about how much door flex plays into the equation.  I tried mine and it will only flex outward only about 1/8 to 3/16” no matter how much I push out while it is latched.  I have the metal pin receptacles.  I am wondering if some doors flex much more adding to the possibility of unlatching.

 

How much to others doors flex while latched?

 

Gary Specketer



 	  Quote: 	
		  



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orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Door Flex

 	  Tim Olson wrote: 	
		  I'm intrigued by the reports of "bowing".  I've never noticed mine bowing at all, and they don't flex, either. 	


I never thought mine bowed either, but last week I took a short flight and took some pictures of my door.

The pictures are of the door measured at the middle fore-aft about at the back of your hip.  One picture of the door is on the ground.  The second is with all my vents closed flying at 150 KIAS and a 3rd is with all my vents open flying at 150 KIAS, both at 4500 Ft.

It looks like with the vents CLOSED, I have 1/16 inch bow and at 150 KIAS with all my vents OPEN and freezing my self to death, I have 1/8 inch bow.  I have the Rivet Head Aluminum pins/blocks and it is a tight fit on the ground when closing the doors.

Doors150Open.jpg

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At 150 KIAS, all vents open

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Doors150Closed.jpg

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At 150 KIAS, vents closed

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DoorsOnGround.jpg

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On the ground

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_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:42 pm Post subject: Door Flex

Now that is good science...Good work.



Thats why I put a spider foam block laminated between the door halves in the area shown. It acts like a shear web between the skins. There is a lot of open air space in that location of the door.

  

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Door Flex

 From: gary(at)wingscc.com

 Date: Thu C 28 Jan 2010 19:38:06 -0800

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

interior_door_hardpoint.jpg

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msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: Door Flex

Hmm, makes me wonder if it would make sense to put an "exhaust" vent in the rear bulkhead to allow the pressure to equalize like they do with cars.



Michael



--

roxianmike(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: Door Flex

John I like the idea of adding some substance to the door in there but forgive me but what is a spider foam block?

  From: indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Door Flex

Date: Thu C 28 Jan 2010 20:40:35 -0800

  .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}  Now that is good science...Good work. 

 Thats why I put a spider foam block laminated between the door halves in the area shown. It acts like a shear web between the skins. There is a lot of open air space in that location of the door.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Door Flex

 From: gary(at)wingscc.com

 Date: Thu C 28 Jan 2010 19:38:06 -0800

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com>

 Tim Olson wrote:

> I'm intrigued by the reports of "bowing". I've never noticed mine bowing at all C and they don't flex C either. 

 I never thought mine bowed either C but last week I took a short flight and took some pictures of my door.

 The pictures are of the door measured at the middle fore-aft about at the back of your hip. One picture of the door is on the ground. The second is with all my vents closed flying at 150 KIAS and a 3rd is with all my vents open flying at 150 KIAS C both at 4500 Ft.

 It looks like with the vents closed C I have 1/16 inch bow and at 150 KIAS with all my vents and freezing my self to death C I have 1/8 inch bow. I have the Rivet Head Aluminum pins/blocks and it is a tight fit on the ground when closing the doors.

 --------

 Gary Blankenbiller

 RV10 - # 40674

 (N2GB Flying)

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 		 	   		    [quote][b]

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Door Flex

 	  msausen wrote: 	
		  Hmm, makes me wonder if it would make sense to put an "exhaust" vent in the rear bulkhead to allow the pressure to equalize like they do with cars.

Michael

-- 	


I have also wondered about just how in-coming air is exhausted.  I can think of many routes for the air to get out but now at least on my AC, I now know they are not as effective as 2 of Steins big vents.  And I guess I should note that I didn't open up the 4 little ones in the overhead console.  It was cold enough just opening up the 2 big front ones for a couple minutes.



This brings up another point.  For those who have alternate static ports inside the cabin, have you tested them and under what conditions?  Looks like you will need to note the conditions and results with your tests.



Is all of this opening a can of worms or what

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Door Flex

You really don't want to put a vent opening in the rear bulkhead.  The pressure in the tailcone is higher than that in the cabin and you will get a huge cold draft coming forward.  In flight you can feel the air coming forward thru the corrugations in the baggage compartment bulkhead.

_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

Space Cadet

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Denver

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Door Flex

So does all of the above mean the cabin vent air is being exhausted out the doors through the gap?  Or are there other significant leak paths?

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