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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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 Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:29 am Post subject: Battery desulfators . . . |
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| Quote: | Comments/Questions: Why do the generally available battery
desulfators all say "not for aviation use". What is the hazard? Is
it legal or technical??
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Probably a bit of both. If a battery intended
for use in an airplane has suffered much sulfation,
it's either (1) been abused in terms of maintaining
it in a topped off condition or (2) is past end of
life.
The whole desulfator thing hasn't really been
embraced by the battery industry. If an abused
(deeply discharged) battery is capable of being
recovered, then there are high-potential, charge-
discharge routines that can be conducted on
equipment that immediately measures and then
confirms airworthiness . . . or says "trash it".
The "break up the sulfate crystals" is problematic.
I suspect the admonition for "non-aviation use"
is a recognition that batteries in airplanes have
unique duties for reducing risk. I suspect the
folks who build such devices are simply worried
about being dragged into a lawsuit for having
sold one of their products into a tiny segment
of the market place.
For our purposes, it's far better to install
and maintain a battery in a manner that gives
us confidence for meeting design goals before
gracefully retiring the battery at end of life.
It just depends on how much you INTEND to depend
on your battery's performance. If its a day-vfr-
fair-weather machine, run it 'til it croaks.
If you have a desire to maintain and be confident
in meeting design goals for battery-only endurance
then your preventative maintenance plan is up to
you and may include any tools you choose . . .
including desulfators. Paraphrasing a noteworthy
modern philosopher, "Trust but verify".
Bob . . .
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ianxbrown
Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:25 am Post subject: Battery desulfators . . . |
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A gentleman behind the counter at Aircraft Spruce Canada told me that he'd been using a trickle charger/de-sulphator for twelve years on the same battery. Based on that, I put my trust in his word and purchased one. Of course the only test of whether it's going to be doing it's job is a discharge test, rather than blind faith. It's currently maintaining the charge on the bench while I'm away for the winter. I have a feeling that a de-sulphator might be better used for maintenance than for attempting to recover a heavily crystallized battery. If any of this in any way disagrees with anything Guru Nuckolls says, then take his advice!!
Ian Brown, Bromont, QC
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: Battery desulfators . . . |
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At 11:19 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:
A gentleman behind the counter at Aircraft Spruce Canada told me that
he'd been using
a trickle charger/de-sulphator for twelve years on the same
battery. Based on that,
I put my trust in his word and purchased one.
What brand/model is it?
I do not doubt his experience. I only question the
analysis for cause/effect and performance. The fact
that his battery might still get an engine started
is not a good quantifier of stored energy. Cranking
a typical piston engine from a battery takes perhaps
2% of the battery's total energy.
Of course the only test of whether it's going to be doing it's job is a
discharge test, rather than blind faith.
You are correct in your suggestion that a deep-discharge
cap-checks and perhaps load-testing are the true measure
of battery capability.
It's currently maintaining the charge on the bench while I'm away for the
winter. I have a feeling that a de-sulphator might be better used for
maintenance than for attempting to recover a heavily crystallized battery.
If any of this in any way disagrees with anything Guru Nuckolls says, then
take his advice!!
It would be interesting to see what technology is
offered in his 12+ years old device. If it's a true
"trickle" charger, then it's an SLVA battery killer.
The maintainers and smart chargers I have in my shop
behave like . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Tender_Recharge.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Minder_Recharge.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_2.jpg
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_5.jpg
Note in the fourth trace, there's a lot of "noise" on
the data . . . it may well be that this charger has a
feature designed to electrically "shake up" battery
chemistry with some notion of preventing or reversing
sulfation growth. I have some examples in my family
of instrumentation batteries that still cap-check at
85+ percent of new after 6 years . . . so it seems
that having a useful device after 12 years in similar
storage may not be a stretch.
If you check out the dozens of patents on devices
that claim to rescue fair batteries in distress
from the clutches of evil Dr. Sulfation, their
approaches and explanations are all over the map.
A search at
http://freepatentsonline.com
for . . . desulfator + battery + charger . . .
yielded 38 hits.
I've not read them in detail but keep in mind that
for one to receive a patent, the process/hardware
depicted must be UNIQUE. So in one resource alone
we are made privy to 38 different approaches. Keep
in mind also that the granting of a patent is no
guarantee that the thing performs as advertised.
I'm not suggesting that one or more such devices are
not useful in some manner. I just don't KNOW. I DO
suggest that MOST of what's offered is like putting
magnets on your car's fuel lines to raise the octane
of the gasoline as it passes by . . .
If anyone has a real world solution to extending
battery life by way of staving off or reversing
sulfation, it's not yet apparent to me. I'm participating
in the evaluation and commercialization of a remarkably
innovative lead-acid aircraft battery that promises weight
reduction and improved performance to boot.
As soon as the business details of the program are
finalized, I'll be able to talk about it more. However,
The real bonus for me is an opportunity to know the
chemistry gurus who are supporting the program. Battery
sulfation and DE-SULFATION will be among numerous topics
I'd like to discuss.
Bob . . .
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ianxbrown
Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 80
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: Battery desulfators . . . |
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At 11:42 AM 2/12/2010, you wrote:
The Battery Minders and Battery Tenders are both quite
suitable for any 12V lead acid battery . . . whether it's
used in an airplane or your garden tractor.
Bob . . .
[quote][b]
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