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problems with new factory

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rashvac(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

What problems have been notice with the new factory and the Rv 10 quick build I got one of the first ones from the new factory but do not know what to look for it has alot of scratches on the wings but I hoped that paint would hide them. Have not started working on the fuse yet what should I look for.



Russell Shavitz

Shavitz Heating & Air Conditioning

4849 Main Street, Skokie, IL 60077

office:  847-678-1000

cell:  847-417-6622

www.shavitz.com

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:19 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

Defects from new QBs....Ailerons and flaps trailing edge not double

flush riveted with a flush rivet set, rather driven all the way with

back rivet set, so rivets are over driven leaving a dimpled

appearance. Just exchanged for new set which are better, but still

done wrong.

Fuselage...mid fuse longerons F1046L&R only skins were dimpled,

longerons were not countersunk, so attachment was by rivet shank only.

Longerons not cut to length, both top and mid-section. Much tougher to

make clean cuts with die grinder or Dremel than it would have been on

band saw. Baggage floor support rails and side skines not dimpled, nor

installed with more than a couple throwaway pop rivets. So spent today

dimpling skins with pop rivet dimple dies because once skins were

riveted on, nothing else would reach. A real PITA. Upper longerons not

drilled for tail cone, nor the template for them supplied. All snap

bushings for wire runs missing, as well as some other hardware. The

control column mounts were not trimmed per plans, so have to remove

them and cut out per plans.

My fuel vent line in one tank was bent wrong, leaving no room for

sending unit float. Took some creative effort to figure how to move it

without kinking the soft aluminum, given the only access is through

the sending unit hole.

I guess that hits the highlights. I'm probably forgetting other stuff.

Phil Perry had a pretty good list on his.



On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Russell Shavitz <rashvac(at)earthlink.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 What problems have been notice with the new factory and the Rv 10 quick build I got one of the first ones from the new factory but do not know what to look for it has alot of scratches on the wings but I hoped that paint would hide them. Have not started working on the fuse yet what should I look for.



 Russell Shavitz

 Shavitz Heating & Air Conditioning

 4849 Main Street, Skokie, IL 60077

 office:  847-678-1000

 cell:  847-417-6622

 www.shavitz.com

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: problems with new factory

Oh I am so glad I ordered the slow build wings and fuse kits. They are patiently waiting for me to finish the tailcone. It is not much of a quick build if you have to go back over and redo 25% of it. Also how much of the inaccessible areas are done incorrectly? I would be slightly aggravated with all those problems especially for what you pay. Back to building. Have fun guys.

_________________
Wayne G.

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

Our DSL is out at the house, so I haven't been able to send my punch list.  I'm on my blackberry right now. 



I'll share my list as soon as we get the service back.  Rudi Greyling added to my list, so it's fairly complete.  But ymmv, Kelly ran into a few things that no others have hit yet.  I know of 6 recent QB's and they're all similar. 



Phil



---

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:51 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

It doesn't come close to 25%. Yes, some of the details are agrevating, 

but on the whole you get a lot of work done with 90%+ being very high 

quality, very professional work. No, the shortcuts shouldn't be there, 

Van's shouldn't use their customers as quality control inspectors, but 

there isn't any other game in town. It is a choice of saving 6-12 months 

worth of construction or doing it your way, getting to suffer your own 

mistakes that hurt even more to fix. If you avoid making mistakes, you 

are better than 99% of builders.

Kelly

A&P/IA

Tech Counselor



rv10flyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Oh I am so glad I ordered the slow build wings and fuse kits. They are patiently waiting for me to finish the tailcone. It is not much of a quick build if you have to go back over and redo 25% of it. Also how much of the inaccessible areas are done incorrectly? I would be slightly aggravated with all those problems especially for what you pay. Back to building. Have fun guys.

 

 --------

 Wayne Gillispie

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

ricksked(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:46 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

That's BS...My standard built RV-10 didn't have any problems...because I built it ALL...you QB builders forked over the cash and sorry to say suffered a few setbacks albeit minor to fix compared to actually building each kit..I will tell you at the time, I had my wings and fuselage to the same point in construction as the QB kits within the lead time for delivery of the QB kits so to think you're getting in the air faster may be a misnomer..My big mistake was building an extra trim tab...and everyone has to build them...I'll admit I am considering QB wings on the next build if only to get rid of the endless rib deburring but the fuselage is FUN to build, goes quick and you control the quality The only person you can blame for FODing out your fuselage with a cleco or two is you..



Rick S.

40185

Flyin

83 hours on the clock 

---

bwestfall

Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Location: Portland, OR

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:46 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

I completed the fuselage section up to the QB point in a touch under 6 mo.

That was working several evenings a week and at least two weekends a month

so not really hitting it to hard.  I also really enjoyed the work.  It was

nice to be working on a completely different looking/feeling part every

couple of days.  Section 29 is a real bitch and takes forever though.  I

guess what I'm saying is that I'd consider going standard build for the fuse

over QB.  The wings were boring though and I would probably go QB on those

if doing it again.



If somebody could come up with a quick build option for raising our infant

daughter I'd probably get to spend more time building .  I'm planning to

get back to building again though hopefully this week.  It's hard to want to

"jump back in" when I was working w/the doors and fiberglass top last

though.  Is there a QB option for bolting on a top and doors... now that I

would buy!



-Ben






It doesn't come close to 25%. Yes, some of the details are agrevating, 

but on the whole you get a lot of work done with 90%+ being very high 

quality, very professional work. No, the shortcuts shouldn't be there, 

Van's shouldn't use their customers as quality control inspectors, but 

there isn't any other game in town. It is a choice of saving 6-12 months 

worth of construction or doing it your way, getting to suffer your own 

mistakes that hurt even more to fix. If you avoid making mistakes, you 

are better than 99% of builders.

Kelly

A&P/IA

Tech Counselor



rv10flyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Oh I am so glad I ordered the slow build wings and fuse kits. They are

patiently waiting for me to finish the tailcone. It is not much of a quick
	


build if you have to go back over and redo 25% of it. Also how much of the

inaccessible areas are done incorrectly? I would be slightly aggravated with

all those problems especially for what you pay. Back to building. Have fun

guys.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 --------

 Wayne Gillispie

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:04 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

Unhuh. You didn't drill out any rivets, they all went in perfect. All

your cuts were perfect. Sure, I believe in the tooth fairy and money 

trees too. Only one extra trim tab eh? I've seen some pairs done 3 

times, and others that builders ignored improper bends.

It isn't necessarily about getting into the air quicker calendar-wise. 

Some folks have other demands on their time that limits how much time 

they can spend building, whether it is kids, job, etc.

Actual time spent fixing problems with QB...perhaps 2 days of work.



ricksked(at)cox.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 That's BS...My standard built RV-10 didn't have any

 problems...because I built it ALL...you QB builders forked over the

 cash and sorry to say suffered a few setbacks albeit minor to fix

 compared to actually building each kit..I will tell you at the time,

 I had my wings and fuselage to the same point in construction as the

 QB kits within the lead time for delivery of the QB kits so to think

 you're getting in the air faster may be a misnomer..My big mistake

 was building an extra trim tab...and everyone has to build

 them...I'll admit I am considering QB wings on the next build if only

 to get rid of the endless rib deburring but the fuselage is FUN to

 build, goes quick and you control the quality The only person you can

 blame for FODing out your fuselage with a cleco or two is you..

 

 Rick S. 40185 Flyin 83 hours on the clock

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

For me the answer is simple. If I had an airplane to fly today, I'd go SB. But I don't so I'm going QB on everything.

 

 Considering how much time I get to build and the number of mistakes I make, the fuse to QB state would easily be a year of work. For $6K, I'm okay with cutting a year off the build. The money is much easier to find than the time.

 

 I'd do the same thing again if I were in the same situation.  (No plane)

 

 But once this one gets in the air, I'll probably start another airplane of some type.  It'll be a SB and I'll enjoy the process and quest for perfection a bit more.

 

 You won't find any regrets from my side. Everyone's case is unique. Family, time, finances, facilities, and current airplane ownership all play roles and everyone will find the solution they think fits their situation.

 

 Phil

 

 

 

 

 

 ---

ricksked(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

He don't know me very well do he!!  Ask any old time members of this forum what I'm known for...never setting a bad rivet...as for bad cuts I have a history of working with explosives so no....I don't make bad cuts either ...heh heh.....thought this list was getting a bit quiet lately..you forgot to sign off with  all you alphabet soup this time!!!

  

Rick Sked

ARM, AIC, CHS all around good guy

N246RS kit 40185

Flying

Tech Counselor(newbie)

Dragon Slayer

Instigator 

Will also rescue Damsels in Distress for a nominal fee



Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



--

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: problems with new factory

Deems warned me about you. ;-p

Remember IA's stock in trade is finding things wrong with aircraft and 

their paperwork. Should I send the Cox crew to take a looksee?



ricksked(at)cox.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 He don't know me very well do he!!  Ask any old time members of this forum what I'm known for...never setting a bad rivet...as for bad cuts I have a history of working with explosives so no....I don't make bad cuts either ...heh heh.....thought this list was getting a bit quiet lately..you forgot to sign off with  all you alphabet soup this time!!!

   

 Rick Sked

 ARM, AIC, CHS all around good guy

 N246RS kit 40185

 Flying

 Tech Counselor(newbie)

 Dragon Slayer

 Instigator 

 Will also rescue Damsels in Distress for a nominal fee

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

n8zg(at)mchsi.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:49 am Post subject: problems with new factory

Rick - 

Say it ain't so!  Send your wings to me.  I could use a(nother) project...

neal



--

David Shelton

Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 22
Location: C77

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: problems with new factory

Setting up production of an airplane kit in another country is a very challenging task. I would imagine Vans will continue to improve the quality but it sure sounds like a good deal... even if there are a few mistakes. The very worst kit from Vans is better quality than most other kits on the market.



Are folks generally finding the same problems or are they all different?

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