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bob.kravis(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

Well, with some luck I may be getting the blue Firefly on Barnstormers.  I am in 2nd position and have to see if the earlier deposit/buyer completes the transaction by the 20th. If not, it's MINE.  Really excited and hopeful but maybe there is someone who wants to sell a FF and can become my plan B. The great information on this list has been instrumental in my plane choice.  I am sure I will be able to get solid info and help with my first UL.

bk

  [quote][b]

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

BobGood luck to you on your purchase! -- where are you located?

Russ K

do not archive



On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:09 PM, Bob Kravis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Well, with some luck I may be getting the blue Firefly on Barnstormers.  I am in 2nd position and have to see if the earlier deposit/buyer completes the transaction by the 20th. If not, it's MINE.  Really excited and hopeful but maybe there is someone who wants to sell a FF and can become my plan B. The great information on this list has been instrumental in my plane choice.  I am sure I will be able to get solid info and help with my first UL.

bk

  	  Quote:

bob.kravis(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:03 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 8:20 PM, russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com (russkinne(at)mac.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    BobGood luck to you on your purchase! -- where are you located?

Russ K

do not archive



	




Greenville, ME and Durham, NC  

  [quote][b]

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

Bob I hope you get your wish and if you do we will have to hook up an do some flying together 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

   Levant,Maine

   

 

  

   --

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:30 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

Bob if that is going to be your first U/L I will give you some hands on in my Mk3 if you would like and introduce you to another Firefly pilot in North Anson I hope you get it  so we can have more Kolbs in this neck of the woods   

 do not archive

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

Bob



   Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt 

103 wt?   Herb



   I like the extra leg brace...good luck...

At 07:09 PM 2/13/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Well, with some luck I may be getting the blue Firefly on 

Barnstormers.  I am in 2nd position and have to see if the earlier 

deposit/buyer completes the transaction by the 20th. If not, it's 

MINE.  Really excited and hopeful but maybe there is someone who 

wants to sell a FF and can become my plan B.

The great information on this list has been instrumental in my plane 

choice.  I am sure I will be able to get solid info and help with my first UL.

bk

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:07 am Post subject: Speaking of FF part 103....

 	  herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: 	
		  Bob



   Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt 

103 wt?   Herb



   I like the extra leg brace...good luck...



	




I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254. 



But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103?

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:21 am Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

You might be able to mount a  dummy ballistic chute (featherweight) and make weight.

BB

do not archive

On 15, Feb 2010, at 11:07 AM, lucien wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote:

> Bob

> 

>   Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt 

> 103 wt?   Herb

> 

>   I like the extra leg brace...good luck...

> 

> 

 I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254. 

 But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103?

 --------

 LS

 Titan II SS

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541

bob.kravis(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

Hal, the owner says it's current weight is 280#.  With the Part 103 allowance for a chute it needs to be 278#.  So without the battery and starter it should make legal weight.bk

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:07 AM, lucien <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com)>

 herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote:

 > Bob

 >

 >    Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt

 > 103 wt?   Herb

 >

 >    I like the extra leg brace...good luck...

 >

 >

 I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254.

 But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103?

 --------

 LS

 Titan II SS

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 [b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase

 	  slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote: 	
		  You might be able to mount a  dummy ballistic chute (featherweight) and make weight.



BB

do not archive



	




Getting rid of the electric start would be the #1 thing I'd do. that's a lot of dead weight that you don't really need. You could put on the Rotax pull start and a Key West regulator (if you really wanted to do away with the battery altogether) and lose a good 20lbs right off the bat. 

With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of trouble.....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

Hey!!!  You are stealing my idea!!!     Herb

At 10:14 AM 2/15/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



You might be able to mount a  dummy ballistic chute (featherweight) 

and make weight.



BB

do not archive



On 15, Feb 2010, at 11:07 AM, lucien wrote:



 > 

 >

 >

 > herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote:

 >> Bob

 >>

 >>   Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt

 >> 103 wt?   Herb

 >>

 >>   I like the extra leg brace...good luck...

 >>

 >>

 >

 >

 > I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric 

 start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254.

 >

 > But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the 

 typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103?

 >

 > --------

 > LS

 > Titan II SS

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

02/15/10 07:35:00

bob.kravis(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

 	  Quote: 	
		  From what I've seen at http://www.compactradialengines.com/mz201.html this engine has an additional 5 hp and saves 13 lbs. with a gearbox and elec. start.  Saves 29 lbs. with a belt drive.  What I have not been able to find is any owner comments about this engine.  Has anybody heard any reports or have an opinion (whoops, now I did it!  Should start a new thread if you respond.) bk


	


On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com (herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com (herbgh(at)nctc.com)>

 

 Hey!!!  You are stealing my idea!!!     Herb

 

 

 At 10:14 AM 2/15/2010, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net (slyck(at)frontiernet.net)>

 

 You might be able to mount a  dummy ballistic chute (featherweight) and make weight.

 

 BB

 do not archive

 

 On 15, Feb 2010, at 11:07 AM, lucien wrote:

 

 > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com)>

 >

 >

 > herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote:

 >> Bob

 >>

 >>   Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt

 >> 103 wt?   Herb

 >>

 >>   I like the extra leg brace...good luck...

 >>

 >>

 >

 >

 > I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254.

 >

 > But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103?

 >

 > --------

 > LS

 > Titan II SS

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 02/15/10 07:35:00

 	
 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com

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 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:07 am Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

> With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull 

through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of 

trouble.....

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 LS


	




Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's 

seat.



It is very difficult to do with a warmed up engine.  I always started my 

Firestar from outside the aircraft.  Everyone else I know did the same 

thing.



With the pull start located over the right shoulder, it is located in the 

most difficult position to pull start.  If you think about it, it is push 

start, not pull start from the seated position.  I'm sure you already were 

aware of this.



I was 47 years old when I built my Firestar and I had a hard time starting a 

warm engine.  I could not start it cold.  I was in fair shape back then.



Kolb advertised the Fire Fly as a Part 103 ultralight.  However, one would 

have to be extremely careful, do without brakes, and more, to be truly 103 

legal.



john hauck

mkIII

Woodville, Florida

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  > With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull 

through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of 

trouble.....

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 LS



	




Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's 

seat.



It is very difficult to do with a warmed up engine.  I always started my 

Firestar from outside the aircraft.  Everyone else I know did the same 

thing.



With the pull start located over the right shoulder, it is located in the 

most difficult position to pull start.  If you think about it, it is push 

start, not pull start from the seated position.  I'm sure you already were 

aware of this.



I was 47 years old when I built my Firestar and I had a hard time starting a 

warm engine.  I could not start it cold.  I was in fair shape back then.



Kolb advertised the Fire Fly as a Part 103 ultralight.  However, one would 

have to be extremely careful, do without brakes, and more, to be truly 103 

legal.



john hauck

mkIII

Woodville, Florida 	




Amen. My Hummer had the recoil starter cable routed down the main tube, around a big pulley by the feet, and then the handle out in front, so that you could pull it towards you. Maxair Drifters likewise. I did my J-6 the same way, the pull starter was located with the handle at the base of the panel, and if the 532 was not being obstinate, you could start it from the pilot's seat without regretting it the next day.



Rigging something like that in a Firefly (or any Kolb) will require some creative mods around the front end of the cage... 



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldpoops)

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase

I could not start my early FS w/ 447 from the seat when cold but could easily do so when warm. I'm not strong and have bad shoulders. It probably depends somewhat upon how the starter rope is routed and how easy your particular engine is to turn over. Mine had a very light weight 2-blade PowerFin prop so the strength required to overcome the inertia was minimized.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

bob.kravis(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:02 am Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

The owner just emailed me with a description of the LG mod on the plane.  He said,"The extra tube is a modification recommended by my EAA tech councilor Mr. Andrew

 Johnson EAA CH. 492.  There has always been some discussion about the

whipping action of KOLB gear when landing and he thought that the

addition of that part would help with that.  I can say that having put

the same thing on my FIRESTAR II and having a whole bunch of landings

 on it I am pretty impressed with his idea. He is a retired BOEING

engineer that worked on numerous BOEING airframe designs.  I did bend 1

rt side gear leg on my FIRESTAR II by hitting an unseen hole in a field

but even then the support leg prevented the gear leg from folding back

 and I was able to taxi back to the apron.  The legs are mounted by  MIG

welding 4130 steel tabs to the outside of the frame at a location that

will transfer any loads to the most tubes and on the  axel support

bracket. They are readily removable if deemed unneeded. I spoke about

 this to the KOLB people before doing it and of course they didn't think

it was necessary.  Their approach to the issue was to always have

plenty of gear legs on hand for people that bend them. In retrospect,

 having the same parts installed on my FIRESTAR II, I wish that they

would include something like this on their kits.  It does do the job

for me very nicely and adds very little weight.  The only un-removable

parts are the 4 small tabs welded to the frame and axel support

 brackets. Those part might go a couple of ounces but I feel the gain is

worth the weight."



On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:05 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

  

 

 > With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of trouble.....

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 LS

 	
 

 

 Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's seat.

 

 It is very difficult to do with a warmed up engine.  I always started my Firestar from outside the aircraft.  Everyone else I know did the same thing.

 

 With the pull start located over the right shoulder, it is located in the most difficult position to pull start.  If you think about it, it is push start, not pull start from the seated position.  I'm sure you already were aware of this.

  

 I was 47 years old when I built my Firestar and I had a hard time starting a warm engine.  I could not start it cold.  I was in fair shape back then.

 

 Kolb advertised the Fire Fly as a Part 103 ultralight.  However, one would have to be extremely careful, do without brakes, and more, to be truly 103 legal.

 

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Woodville, Florida 



 

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 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



[b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  

Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's 

seat.



	




I do, tho, have a lot of time pull-starting 447's overhead with with the starter rope (on a different plane) - as Thom said, contributing factors on how easy/hard it is are the prop used and how the handle is routed.



It's a lot harder regardless of engine with a heavier prop, the 3 blade IVO can put you to task getting the works up to the required 300 rpm especially in the seat pulling overhead. Also, if the rope is too far back or things are in the way when you're pulling that won't help either.



My starter rope on my FS II for example was routed a little too far back to have any hope of starting from the seat. Well, it was a 503 also which is pretty stiff even with the clutch....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:05 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

At 12:34 PM 2/15/2010, Bob Kravis wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  The owner just emailed me with a description of the LG mod on the plane.  He said,

 "The extra tube is a modification recommended by my EAA tech councilor...I spoke about

 this to the KOLB people before doing it and of course they didn't think

 it was necessary.  Their approach to the issue was to always have

 plenty of gear legs on hand for people that bend them... 	


 Without seeing the details of the installation I can't pass judgement, but sometimes strengthening the gear legs isn't such a great idea.  Often the gear is the mechanical "fuse" in the system... the gear leg bends in a hard landing, whereas a stronger gear leg transfers the force (and the damage) to the much more expensive to repair fuselage.



 -Dana

 

 --

  Place a half full glass of water before a pessimist, optimist and an engineer:

 

 The pessimist says the glass is half empty.

 The optimist says the glass if half full.

 The engineer says the glass is too large.    [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

Do you have a url for the gear leg mod on your  FF?

  

 I have been on the road and missed that one.

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 hauck's holler, alabama

  

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase

john This is the link to the firefly with Gear mod  



http://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=407976&ZOOM=b9e91f591b3a8e07d790803c287cbe4d



Ellery Batchelder Jr.



--

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